First bad experience with synthetic oil

[nickleinonen]

i've got about 3,000 km on my oil now [0w40xd3] and i checked it yesterday morning at work [after sitting dead for 9 hours] and the oil level was exactally where it should be for what i put in it [12 liters, so about 0. 5 liter overfull] and that is where it was. i don't tow anything most of the time, but i drive it like it was stolen most of the time too... just over 25,000km on it now [±16000 miles] and i have run synthetic in it for the past 14,000km [±8600 miles]

 

[Island Dodge]

i've been using Amsoil for several years in my old diesel Mercedes cars. A few years ago I screwed up installing a rear main seal and had a small oil leak when breaking in the engine on dino (Delo 400). When I switched to Amsoil the leak disappeared. Maybe it woulda went away anyway, but I'm sold on synthetic oil.

 

[jhyatt]

my truck doesnt use oil it makes it i think its the injectors

 

[fortunate1]

Mine has always used/burned/vented/whatever? about a quart every 6000 miles. Started out with Rotella, then Delo 400, now RP. I do use a bypass filter now, so about a quart is added every 3000 anyway to make up for what is absorbed in the old roll. Other than that, I leave the RP in for around 20K and then change the oil, TP roll, and LF3894 at the same time.



As far as benefits, the synthetic makes the start-up "clatter-free" compared to the Rotella and Delo. This is especially true in the winter (Virginia); I can only imagine that the improved cold-flow would be felt even more in the Great White North.

 

[Island Dodge]

One other thing I've noticed (with the Mercedes) when using synthetic is that if I check my oil, say 1/2 hour after shut down, the stick will show I'm considerably lower than if I wait 6+ hours. That tells me theres allot of oil staying up in the engine. This was not true with dino (Delo). Havent switched to Amsoil on my truck yet but I wonder if anyone has noticed this with their Cummins. Another thing I have noticed is, my cummins oil is still honey color after 1500+ miles, not so with the MB even with a "fresh" rebuild.

 

[DPKetchum]

Nver noticed a differance dino or syn. when checking the oil. In fact I would think the other way around. The syn. flows SO much better then dino that it would drain back FASTER to the pan instead of your thoughts of STICKING higher up in a engine.

 

[Texasrattler]

Was the Royal Purple rated CI-4 or CH-4?



Pete

 

[I-6DZL]

One other thing I've noticed (with the Mercedes) when using synthetic is that if I check my oil, say 1/2 hour after shut down, the stick will show I'm considerably lower than if I wait 6+ hours. That tells me theres allot of oil staying up in the engine. This was not true with dino (Delo). Havent switched to Amsoil on my truck yet but I wonder if anyone has noticed this with their Cummins. Another thing I have noticed is, my cummins oil is still honey color after 1500+ miles, not so with the MB even with a "fresh" rebuild.

Synthetic oils Kling better to all of the engine parts. That is why synthetic is better in cold weather, as well as quicker flow.

That is probably the reason you have to wait 6+ hours for an accurate reading.



Best way to check oil is after sitting all night. Pull dipstick, check, throw right back in and go.



Curtis

 

[Donn]

I ****ched to Mobile 1 after 5k. Then after reading many posts on this site I got nervous and emailed cummings a letter asking their opinion. They were very informative and replied right away and told me that it should not matter, but NOT to keep changing the brand and type of oil. I would email a link to the letter (if I only knew how). My truck has never used any oil, and I change it at 8. 5k it is not down but may be 1/8 quart.

 

[jwduke]

Royal Purple is supposed to be good oil... . Wonder why you had problems of it using it??? I think I'll stick with Mobil Delvac 1300.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Synthetic oils Kling better to all of the engine parts. That is why synthetic is better in cold weather, as well as quicker flow.

That is probably the reason you have to wait 6+ hours for an accurate reading.



Best way to check oil is after sitting all night. Pull dipstick, check, throw right back in and go.



Curtis

HMMmmm - *I* always thought a big selling point of synthetics was that theY *FLOWED BETTER* - you can't have it BOTH ways, so which IS it "better flowing", or "better clinging"?

 

[gotchili]

Question for ya. Did you wait long enough when you checked the dipstick and found the oil low. Mercedes says when you are using synthetics you should wait 8 hours after shut down to check the dipstick b/c the synthetics are designed to stick to the surfaces to minize wear at startup. They infact got rid of dipsticks for a few years because owners were checking the dipsticks right after shutdown and overfilling their engines with oil and doing more damage than if the oil was low.

 

[JOblenes]

HMMmmm - *I* always thought a big selling point of synthetics was that theY *FLOWED BETTER* - you can't have it BOTH ways, so which IS it "better flowing", or "better clinging"?

I am not sure that this is true. "Better flowing" I would interpret as viscosity which is the constant of proportionality between fluid shear stress and strain rate in the fluid itself, in layman's terms you might say how well the fluid sticks to itself. "Better clinging" would be more a measure of how well it sticks to another different material (involving lots of surface chemistry stuff, surface tension, interfacial tension, etc. ). For example take some water droplets and swish them around in an iron frying pan then do the same thing in a Teflon coated frying pan. In both cases the water has the same viscosity (assuming same temp, etc. ) but different "cling" as demonstrated by the very different behaviour you will see, the iron will wet-out so to speak the Teflon will not. Royal Purple's oil is nothing more than a standard PAO base (which ultimately determines the viscosity) but their proprietary additive technology, synerlec I think its called, has more to do with the clinginess which they claim it does better than other competitor's products (again by analogy, they are saying they could make the water stick to the Teflon). So it would seem that you may be able to have your cake and eat it too. Based on the stuff I have read it would seem that the selling point of synthetic is, in fact, a greater film strength (clinginess) with reduced viscosities, so in theory you could run a lighter oil (consume less power overall moving your oil around the engine), but still maintain your lubrication boundary by virtue of increased film strength. Just some food for thought. And to the fellow who asked about the CI or CH rating, I will look on the bottle tomorrow morning and let you know.

 

[JOblenes]

Question for ya. Did you wait long enough when you checked the dipstick and found the oil low. Mercedes says when you are using synthetics you should wait 8 hours after shut down to check the dipstick b/c the synthetics are designed to stick to the surfaces to minize wear at startup. They infact got rid of dipsticks for a few years because owners were checking the dipsticks right after shutdown and overfilling their engines with oil and doing more damage than if the oil was low.

I can't honestly say that I know how long I waited, if I had to guess I would say maybe 2 - 3 hours after shutdown. This is something I will definitely pay attention to when I try the synthetic again, hopefully before winter because I think I would like to try some of that 0w-40 stuff. I had to leave my truck at home three times last winter because it hit -38 degrees C and she was a no go, just wouldn't turn over fast enough to light off.



And for those who are still following this thread do any of you offroad your trucks? have any of you lost oil that way? I seem to recall reading something on here a while back about driving up sufficiently steep hills that the oil could run out the breather tube, is this actually possible because I have definitely driven up some steep offroad stuff here in the Rockies.

 

[nickleinonen]

about driving up sufficiently steep hills that the oil could run out the breather tube,

i think the hill would need to be about 90° down hill before you got any significant amount of oil out the road draft tube. not all that much oil makes it to the top end of the engine, and you would need to fill it up before you got oil flowing out the draft tube.

 

[BigEasy]

Shortly after converting, I had the oppportunity to tow about 6K from GA to WY.

Did you go by way of Boston, then Houston, on your way back to WY?

 

[jwduke]

Has anybody noticed a mpg increase switching to a full synthetic?



Are you changing your oil at 7500, or waiting for a higher milage, before changing?

 

[redram]

The RP 15W40 is API Licensed at CI-4+/SL as per the API website.

At 12000 km or roughly 7560 miles when you changed, and if you were running easy miles (no load and hills), it's quite possible that you did not have the engine fully seated when you changed.

No damage will have been done but the ability of the synthetic to 'wet' the cylinder walls better than the mineral oil might be the reason that it consumed some oil. RP recommends 10,000 miles minimum for a new diesel in pickups and up to 20,000 for heavy duty applications. (15,000 km for the low end).



I changed my 96 to RP at 5000 miles having been checking the wear rates of the engine with oil analysis - it now has over 180,000 miles on RP and still does not use any appreciable oil - although depending on the load and speed and ambient conditions - that will vary some.



If you had left the synthetic in at 12000 km and continued it's use, the engine should have stopped using oil as the engine fully seated.



Regarding the gentleman's comment that you have to change the synthetic at the same time - says who? I have run 12,000 mile oil changes on my 96 for the first 115,000 miles, and now run 25,000 mile oil changes using RP and would be happy to pull a valve cover to show how clean the engine is... .compared to any 3000-5000 mile mineral oil engine of the same year and configuration.



Change oil for a reason - dirt , fuel and water contamination along with heat are the reason the all engine oil begin to deteriorate. The better the oil, the better the resistance to degradation. Of course, to take full advantage of any oil's ability to protect, using trend oil analysis is an effective method but it takes more than one oil sample to get a trend - taking a sample every 7500 to 15000 over a period of time will establish a normal trend for that particular vehicle. Taking one sample and trying to compare it to others is like having one blood pressure reading taken - it will tell you if you are in left field but not what your body is actually doing - it takes multiple samples to establish a trend - minimum of three.



Increased oil consumption is a mechanical reason - either pushed past the rings, leaking past valve stem seals, physically leaking past gaskets (valve covers, pan, front / rear main seals, on turbo charged engines, leaking past a the compressor seals or exhaust seals under boost, and on emission control equipped vehicles, sometimes a faulty PCV or such and on very rare occasions, a bad check vacuum modulator valve on automatic transmissions will allow engine oil to fill the transmission.



Hope this helps.

 

[redram]

Has anybody noticed a mpg increase switching to a full synthetic?

Yes, saw 7% when I switched my 89 to RP 15W40 from Chevron Delo/ Shell Rotella, Valvoline Turbo.



Are you changing your oil at 7500, or waiting for a higher milage, before changing?

I routinely run 12,000 mile oil changes on standard filters and 25,000 since adding a OilGuard Bypass oil filter.

 

[RustyJC]

I'm certainly not carrying water for Royal Purple, but I note no consumption at all between oil changes in my Acura 3. 2TL-S, but neither do I note consumption of Mobil I in my wife's Durango 360 cid or Delo 400 in my Cummins between changes, either.



Rusty