Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting First batch of reloads in .223, (for pure accuracy)

[Sticks]

I've only taken the three classes, all three used transitions, but only one taught how to do it. I have yet to shoot an IDPA rifle side match with them. In fact I don't believe that I have made one match this year at all. Time and money, two items that I have found myself lacking this year.

 

[GHarman]

Heres a graphic that shows more than I could discuss in words. When loading in volume and FL sizing brass especially. If you find yourself trimming overall case length each time. That brass is coming from somewhere! It is always a good idea to make sure you take the time to inspect each case!
GregH

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...paration-spot-problems-before-things-go-boom/

 

[BIGNASTY]

Conventional shooting positions...What are those?

You forgot one of the more important shooting positions :-laf

Never could see the use in all the web-gear the brain bucket and flak vest were sat on to protect the FAMILY JEWELS from up coming rounds


Didn't have to worry to much about CCW permits either

 

[Sticks]

Heres a graphic that shows more than I could discuss in words. When loading in volume and FL sizing brass especially. If you find yourself trimming overall case length each time. That brass is coming from somewhere! It is always a good idea to make sure you take the time to inspect each case!
GregH

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...paration-spot-problems-before-things-go-boom/

Yeah...I probably ought to take a real close look at the next batch ready for processing. Have to be on their third or fourth firing by now. I shudder at the concept of inspecting 5k cases. My attention span would wander by 100 max.

Big - Pictures like that are heavy reminders of what men (and women) have given to this country. Thank you for your service, and for doing what I lacked the fortitude to do during the Iraq drama (moral issue on my part, not going overseas to risk my life for another country, or Big Oil's profit).

 

[Flying_gage]

Heres a graphic that shows more than I could discuss in words. When loading in volume and FL sizing brass especially. If you find yourself trimming overall case length each time. That brass is coming from somewhere! It is always a good idea to make sure you take the time to inspect each case!
GregH

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...paration-spot-problems-before-things-go-boom/

Thanks for sharing that! I am coming to realize that when reloading, it can be as complex as you want to make it. This complexity seems to be directly proportional to what one is asking of the case in question. Reloading a cartridge for plinking has far less considerations than for accuracy.

I am still finding the load that works for this rifle. In doing so, I hope that I will be able to make a semi-educated guess as to case longevity, being backed up by objective findings. I doubt that I will use cases more than 5 times. I just don't foresee having the time or mental fortitude to worry about them much beyond that. Obviously this may change, but I have a bench mark loosely fixed in my head at this point, (I don't enjoy juggling variables as much as I used too).

 

[Sticks]

Presuming that your rifle likes mild to moderate loads, 5 case cycles should not be a problem. You start getting on the hot side, bordering on overpressure, probably closer to 3 max.

I really need to do a close exam of my last firings and look for overpressure signs. I am a couple grains over the max on the powder charge according to Accurate's load data, but that is for .223, not 5.56, and for a 20" barrel not 16. Hard to get load data for my combination of powder, primer, projectile, barrel length, and gas system. I have not even chronoed them yet, I just know the seem to work and are accurate.

 

[KBurgoyne]

stock up on components. everglades has great deals on once fired military brass. Got 1000 308s for 175 and free shipping with them. mostly LC and WCC brass. I think they sell 1000 223s for 100 bucks. For bullets, I like nosler custom competitions. Great bullets at good prices. Nosler really cuts the price down with bulk packaging, and many people swear by sierra especially the moly coated, but they get pricey.

 

[GHarman]

Clean and inspect each piece of brass. Clean first so you can see the flaws! I've found BRAND NEW BRASS with serious integrity issues! One was cracked clean through. You could MAYBE fire it once, if you missed it during culling, but your chamber would be gas cut, at the minimum. Worse case scenario, you have a case head separation and ruin yer day, not to mention your rifle!

Moly coated bullets are fantastic, BUT! If you get the bore dirty with moly fouling and leave it sit in humid weather, for a long period. The Molybdenum Disulfide can combine with the humidity and create sulfuric acid. This can etch your barrel. I shoot quite a few Moly coated bullets from select firearms. I coat my own bullets and have for many years. That process creates an increase in firearms maintenance requirements and understanding of the consequences.
Hey, I'm still half asleep!

Moly slicks the bullet, it cuts down on fins where the lands engrave the bearing surface and slick the bullet travel, down the bore. When you clean the barrel the bore should be chemically clean. Patches come out with no discoloration. Oil the bore for storage.
Before shooting, remove the oil. On a dry bore, pre season the bore with a patch coated with dry Moly disulfide powder. (You can buy the powder from several sources). This will give you a better cold bore seasoning and less shot to shot variation on the first few rounds. Cold bore shots are just about dead on with subsequent shots.

Midway USA has had Moly powder, in the past, and the original source is NECO.
http://www.neconos.com/category/Moly-Plating-5

GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

You are going to lose a certain percentage of brass every time you reload.... usually it's only one or two pieces the first time or two, but after that, it grows exponentially. I usually cycle about 110 rounds of brass every time I start a rifle out. Then, by around 500 rounds, or the 5th reloading, you usually still have 70-80 pieces, depending on what it is. I'll usually add another 30-50 rounds here, and use them for practice or play to fireform the cases, depending on how the rifle shoots with the new brass... some rifles will take it and shoot fine. The biggest problem I see with once-fired brass is splitting of the necks, as the rounds are usually fired in something with a huge chamber, and have to be pulled down quite a bit. This stresses the neck area, and leads to cracking. Annealing seems to help with this, if you care to research it and put the time in on it. In .223, I experience the second failure rate after necks splits is primer pocket failure, especially if you have swaged the cartridge or use a powered primer pocket cleaner.

There are alternatives to Moly Coating, GHarm.... Without the humidity issues. Ever tried the Boron Nitride coatings? http://www.davidtubb.com/boron-nitride-coating-bullets Either way, I'm not convinced on their use. It's cheap, yes, but a good barrel will do just fine without them, IMO. Pros and cons to everything, I suppose.... Now, for factory hammered barrels... that's a different story. I'm limited on my use of the Boron, but so far it seems to work well like the Moly... usually around 50-100 fps faster loads in these barrels with either one.

 

[Sticks]

...In .223, I experience the second failure rate after necks splits is primer pocket failure, especially if you have swaged the cartridge or use a powered primer pocket cleaner.

Is this specifically .223 or including 5.56 brass? One has to do something to deal with crimped primer pockets, be it swaging or reaming.

What are you seeing as far as failure? Primers falling out, flash hole opening up?

 

[HHhuntitall]

Is this specifically .223 or including 5.56 brass? One has to do something to deal with crimped primer pockets, be it swaging or reaming.

What are you seeing as far as failure? Primers falling out, flash hole opening up?

Primarily, I had 5.56 LC ammo in mind, despite my typing .223..... The crimp has to be removed, but many people overestimate how much swage is left after de-priming the cartridge. It's brass, so much of the swage is taken out by the removal of the primer. I've reloaded many rounds without swaging or reaming, but only on LC, ADI, or IMI brass. Swaging is the best method, IMO, although with the LC brass I've had headstamped since '02, just a simple, light, taper ream removes most all the crimp. A power reamer works great for this, I've found. The IMI seems to be a tighter pocket, as is the ADI. I have limited experience with the ADI, having only had around 4krounds of brass to play with, all '10 or '11 headstamp. The stiffer/harder, CCI Arsenal primers can be a problem here, and the brass will have to be opened up to use them. But with Fed205M primers, I haven't had any problems with tight primer pockets.... And that brass usually lasts longer. I have had only two slam fires with the Fed205s.

Brass life depends on loading, obviously, but the biggest failure I see is split necks. The larger necks cut in the chambers of the AR rifles is the biggest culprit here, as most dies over-resize the brass. Most times, you only need .003-5 pulled out to cycle in your rifle reliably. This may limit it's use in other rifles, but it prolongs your brass life. If you're pulling .008-.010 out of your brass when reloading, it's not going to make but 3-4 cycles. There are some large chambered rifles out there that can take a cartridge wrapped in tape and fire it!! Reloading die makers work off SAAMI specs; they have no idea what your chamber is.... That's why we have bushings in our resizing dies for benchrest reloading.... That's over the top for AR shooters, I think, considering most want a bullet crimp.... Also, the more you resize the brass, the more it will "grow" and have to be trimmed.

The second failure rate is usually in 5.56 brass, in the primer pockets. Many, many of my fellow shooters complain of dropped primers in the magazines.... Well, that's after 2-3 reloadings, so it's interesting to me. Why are they doing that? The one, common denominator I find in all of them, is that the rounds are all swaged or reamed. Looking into it further, I find many of them are using RCBS swaging dies, and taking the calipers to them reveals a somewhat large swaging die in the head of their setup.... IMO, if that head die were reduced by .002-3, it would extend the primer pocket life a great deal....

In the .223 brass, I see quite a few failures, but usually to quality of brass, I think. The Remington brass seems to get brittle after 2-3 firings, and if it's not annealed, it will split the next shooting. Primer pockets hold up well in the Remington brass, unless the reloader is using a power primer pocket cleaner.... At Tulsa Red Castle a few years back, an older gentleman brought his grandson to shoot 600yds. He was having a really hard time staying on target, and after a few curses and obvious frustrations, the Match Director asked them to quit shooting. They had crossed over targets several times, and were hitting all over the place, including over the berm. After the match, they hung around to shoot some more, and my Dad asked to stay and help them. They were shooting 75gr Hornady A-max, in a Remington SPS bolt gun. First thing, we inspected the brass, and there were quite a few loose primers... I managed to knock one or two out, and the primer pockets weren't even round.... The older gentleman had reloaded them, and after some questions, he said he had had a problem getting the carbon out of some of them, so he held them a little longer under his powered primer pocket cleaner brush.... Then we noticed he has some different bullets loaded, so we suggested he shoot some of them. He only had 20 rounds or so loaded, I think they were 69gtr Sierras or 68gr Hornady match.... either way, he managed to stay on paper for 10 rounds, so we suggested he change bullets, work on his brass processing, and try again next month. He was on paper, but I can't say he would have bumped anyone from the top 10.... or 25. But the fact he had his grandkid out shooting is a good thing, IMO. AND, he was reloading himself. Anyway, I'm getting off track. I've seen several primer pockets destroyed by power tools, so be careful there. Every last trace of carbon doesn't have to be removed......

I don't see many flash holes going away, unless the load is way too hot. Then you usually see broken gas rings and excessive carbon fouling in the ARs, not to mention split necks and flattened primers . Someone told me a while back that they were beginning to see some problems here from the CCIArsenal primers.... anyone have a comparison chart on heat for these primers vs. Fed, Rem, Win, BR-4? I don't know how the arsenal primers could be causing issues, here. I haven't used many of them, yet, though. I've been going to see what they're doing on the primer pockets for the crimp removal. I'd wager is has something to do with that powered reaming tool.....

 

[Sticks]

OK. I feel better now. I only ream the LC brass once via drill press and jig, and my cases are sized to a JP enterprise case gauge to land midpoint between the hi/lo shelves. I know I have measured a fired case with a bullet comparator and am only bumping down .003(? - it's been a year) on cases already fired from my rifle.

The LC cases that miss getting reamed I find soon enough, crushed primer (CCI 400?). I have not had a primer fall out yet in the 10k combined rounds fired.

 

[HHhuntitall]

OK. I feel better now. I only ream the LC brass once via drill press and jig, and my cases are sized to a JP enterprise case gauge to land midpoint between the hi/lo shelves. I know I have measured a fired case with a bullet comparator and am only bumping down .003(? - it's been a year) on cases already fired from my rifle.

The LC cases that miss getting reamed I find soon enough, crushed primer (CCI 400?). I have not had a primer fall out yet in the 10k combined rounds fired.

Was it you, Sticks, that had the neat little set up with the wooden clamp in the drill press? That was nice....

.003 is just about right, IMO, for max tension and cartridge life. They'll need to be crimped for feeding, but I bet you're doing that.

See, that's happened to me several times with the CCI400s and BR4s on Mil brass...(as you would expect it to, without reaming/swaging...) But I've never had it happen on the Fed205s or CCI Arsenal. The Arsenal primers are supposed to be a bit harder to prevent slam fires.... CCI is on my potty list after they ate a bolt in my .50... #@$%!

 

[Sticks]

Yup, that was me. Hand reaming 10k cases was not gonna happen, and the RCBS 5 station case prep center did nothing but make my hand cramp after 100 rounds, and I was having a hard time keeping them to what I know should be a perfect vertical reaming.

All my loads have been CCI, and have not had a single slam fire or pierce. I'm a little concerned about the CCI BR primers I got though (got caught short after Sandy Hook - how sad is that, we associate supply shortages with shooting incidents and elections). The BRs were the only ones that I could find in small rifle, and missed on the bullets by 1 freakin' day. When I get to those, gonna have to start all over with the ladder loads.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Meh, there shouldn't be a whole lot of difference. The BR4's are SUPPOSED to be a little hotter, but..... CCI's QC has gone down the toilet.... I can't tell a difference between them in a match rifle.... I even mixed them deliberately in a 20 shot group, and there was very little difference at 400. Mixed brass makes more of a difference than that did... as well as switching powder lot numbers. Now, going to the Fed Match primer made a little difference.... loads that were borderline too hot in a bolt gun were rendered unusable with the 205GM Match... Those suckers are a quite a bit hotter.... Good for slow powder with heavy bullets!! The regular 205s don't appear to have that extra heat.... perhaps the Match primers are for the slower powder?

Oh, and yes, I understand by one day...... Wednesday after Super Tuesday, I ordered a LOT of powder and bullets.... I got most of it, so I'm sitting pretty good on rifle stuff. I didn't have the funds to get the pistol bullets I wanted, so I waited, and that's put a damper on my pistol practice... BAH!! Dang pistol powder goes soooooooo much further than the H1000, V20n29, or IMR7828.... But, it seems the slow powders started coming back way before the midrange stuff. Everyone I know is either wanting to or starting to reload, and it's all in .223, 243, 270, or .308. I've been so busy it's slowed down my shooting altogether. I bet I didn't shot 5k rounds last year. I hope to catch up this year!! Speaking of which, I got a box of 2k 230gr .45 plated bullets Friday from Berry's.... gonna have to get my Dillon set back up!! Oo. (Just in time, too!!)