first tow with duramax

[_MACKIN]

CUMAPART

If the 98 is a 6. 5 TD i owned one. I replaced with a 2001 D/A no comparison at all. I would not attempt to sell you on the Duramax. If I owned a Cummins I would not jump ship either just remember that. . I'm just a Chevy guy, Always been one. My best friend is a Dodge owner still is he owns a 1999 Cummins 4x4 3500 series..... All I worked on is Dodge trucks and cars all my life with him. Perhaps that is what pushed me to Chevy... Just kidding... ... .

MAC

 

[CUMAPART]

OH! I'll never jump ship. I love my truck and you love yours. Yeah it is a 6. 5. I'm just the one stuck driving Chevy's all day long

 

[_MACKIN]

CUMAPART



Now what a minute if you were stuck ... You wouldn't be driven... ... ... Right?

Did you every get stuck? Did one of those lift pumps ever let go on you? Did you ever drive down the road at 65 mph and your 1998 (6. 5) truck stall? (lift pump) Have you ever gotten water in the fuel. Cleaned out filter housing try to restart only to find out no fuel your primer pump (which gm has extended the warranty on) s**t the bed and there is no MECHANICAL prime. Been their done that... ..... If you should happen to get the Duramax to get "stuck " driving in. ? It won't be that bad trust me all those bugs are gone and it gets its arse moving ... ..... What do you do? Just curious that makes you (in your opinion) be demoted to driving a Chevy all day. Myself I would enjoy it but I'm bias... LOL

Oo.

 

[BK]

Mac,



What I'm saying is:

1) Before the oil burner power war, cummins had a long history and a menu to pick off of for power, just for the ISB. Life is easy for the ISB in the Dodge.

2) The ISB numbers were not published for a power war but a balance or power/economy/life for an application.

3) With a goal in hand, there is no abolute truth in advertising and one can bend the data and produce that data in all sorts of ways to produce the ad one needs.



I'm not saying Dodge has something to hide, rather Chevy's marketing people had a goal to meet. There are many ways to make such numbers meet one's goals. If you think any of the big three are above that, I have a bridge to sell.



Again, back to real world data and normalized testing. My bother in law as had two 3/4 Fords in the last 20 years for work. Put 280K on each of them. So? Got his monies worth. Both gassers. But he did better than I did with my two Fords and my GMC. This is my 1st Dodge truck, we'll see how I do with it.



I test drove a Dmax when they 1st came out, of course I didn't tow, but seat of the pants feeling... it didn't put a smile on my face. I didn't feel, see the power and why the extra $$, except for the bells and whistles. I think Chevy makes some very good looking trucks. I think the Z series was great, alot of that stayed in the HD line. The Dodge grew on me. (I don't know where GM fell off the boat with the disaster series of trucks, even one of the heads of GM said they were cleaning up the design of those trucks-he wasnt happy, saw that on a video taped interview, so not second hand).

GM seems to have always been 1st lately with all the bells and whistles. Now they adopted Delphi's Q-steer. The HD had almost as many button and toys as some of the glass cockpits I did some items for. I love gadgets (basement and garage is full of them), but I guess not in my truck.



With my 23 years of running and breaking trucks, I don't want tin can heads, less bells and whistles the better and no IFS on 4x4 for me. I almost bought a Ford, for it's front end components and "mature" PS. Didn't know anything about the ISB yet. But after spending a year looking and shoping and reading, I got turned off by the PS issues. Turned on by the ISB design and it's history. Found that all those "dodge" transmission failures were due to turned up cummins. If Dodge had an IFS - I probably would have had the Ford and taken my chances with the PS.



But thats the way I like my trucks. Just as someone said earlier. . opinions are just like ****oles, everyone has one. And thats why the big three can stay in business.



I'm sure my neighbors would love for me to have something thats any little bit less noiser than the ISB. But thats not what I bought the Dodge/ISB for. Had my fill of towing with gassers, and I swore off 1/2 tons a long time ago.



Of course none of use want to make a bad choice in what we buy. Many here on TDR have said that they hope the Dmax does well, this way Dodge doesn't rest on their lorals. My political/engineering/marketing thoughts (much different than what I want from a truck engine for myself)... Frankly we need advancements in diesel design. The only way certain designs like the parrallel hybrids are going to work and sell well and become affordable is if Americans start to accept diesels as much as they do overseas. The old GM V8 conversion diesels cars and trucks, the black belching imports have set the american public against diesels in general. I think the more recent clean burning engines and now you have the less noisey Dmax, all should help turn the image of the diesel around. If the Dmax proves to be reliable - overall more will be learned and gained.



The big three are already planning on small sized diesels for light duty applications in preperation for the general acceptance or continued exposure of the American buyers to the new diesel capabilities.

 

[JoeyD]

This is not a bash in anyway but I find it hard to believe that you guys aren't inpressed with at least the acceleration while empty in the GM. It is the fasted stock diesel truck you can buy. I know you can box up the Dodge to beat it but empty and stock it is a quick truck which would give it a good set of pants feal. I haven't towed with one so I can't coment on that but I have driven a few empty.

 

[BK]

There are guys that started this thread that have a towed with both and own both and have voiced their experiences.

I test drove a Dmax when they 1st came out and it was a bit less noiser than my CTD and sorry but didn't put the smile on my face via the seat of the pants when I got on it.

I swore I was driving a noisy gasser. It need the rpms, which later Dmax owners said that thats the high reving hitech diesels, other explain thats to increase the power band. others say other things. . what ever... Seat of the pants told me the low end wasn't on tap like the Dodge. The Chevy handled the ruts better, rode smoother. Felt like a bigger crown vic with airshocks in the rear.

If I wanted an SUV, I'd have and SUV riding vehicle. I know when they are that soft to start with, they get hard to handle with towing & load off road. Not what --I'm-- looking for.



And just to go through the math. I thought the Dmax's were out for just over a year now. . lets say 2 for the sake of calculations.

So the guy with 300K miles/2 years. . driving 7 days a week, 365 days a year would be driving 410 miles a day. Which makes an average speed of ~50mph for an 8 hour day. This guy never took a weekend off or holiday and drove everyday for 2 years.

How long as the Dmax been out?

 

[_MACKIN]

I thought that some of you Diesel guys would like to read part or all of this since this topic is the Duramax. Some back ground on developing and testing.

http://www.motorage.com/edindex/10_00pg014.htm



The most interesting is the test on the some times referred to as "TIN CAN" heads. For us youngins me included, they used to make cans out of tin now they use alum. LOL Coke and Pepsi sell a lot of soda in cans, now they have a place to use them at the ISUZU plant. So drink up guys they need more alum. These things are selling like hot cakes right now... ... ... Also GM tested the engine on a full-load durability test that ran 2,500 hours That is or would be equivalent to 104 days straight and at lets say at 70 mph (for sake of argument) 175,000 miles not to shabby...

Now don't flame me :-{} I'm just the messenger. Be cordial to me read my sig.....

 

[_MACKIN]

BK,

This guy has posted in a few forums. Always the same no BS. He runs a hot shot hauling company. Hauling cars all over the USA. I believe on a 3 car trailer. They have two drivers per truck. If you want I'll dig up some earlier post the best I can. Not trying to be a smart a** ,Or start any kinda friction. Just trying to get a little positive info out. When and if I can. On Duramax threads.....

http://forums.pickuptruck.com/showf...=150050&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

----> A http://forums.pickuptruck.com/showf...=142513&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart= little older

 

[BK]

Mac,

Cool article. I know your here to represent the other side and you paid to be here. Your a person with a mission. It's all in fun. The only time I would say I saw a bit of red was when I was rebuffed on the Chevy board for sighting my experiances here on the TDR board. I tried to join the chevy board to explain myself, but they wouldnt let me. Thats a bit one sided and speaks to some of the folks there. If they were there to really learn and hear... an not keep things under wraps maybe they would have let me sign up and continue the conversation on their thread that they quoted me in.



I'm not brand loyal... thats not what makes me tick...

But as you can tell by now from my writings, I'm a bit cynical on such articles, reports and bleeding edge technology.

For 23 years I've been involved in all sorts of design and R&D programs and qual and life testing and marketing and all sorts of poo. There are things I would never sign off on, not because of what was written, but what wasn't written.

How long did the heads live with water cavition? Or no flow at all?

Stalled fan? reduced cfm?

That wasnt reported. The thermal shock they reported didnt state at what flow rate the cool water was introduced compared to the flow rate. What was the ambient temp of the "cold water" and the heads at the time?

(can you tell I spent 13 years as part of my job finding ways to kill product to increase reliability or find design margins?)

Spin city, Detriot itself. Sorry to say marketing drives engineering and the final product. . not engineering. But if engineering totally drove the product I doubt we could afford anything!



Yes time will be the proof. As much as I've lived on the bleeding end of technology to earn a living, I wont spend my money on it in a product. All of these items in my past and the Dmax is no exception, are designed with comprimises to meet goals, and the 1st goal usually being price. While al. isnt the cheapest raw product, it's much easier to work with in production, much lighter which also benifits the end product. But it still has it's thermal constant issues. Atleast the whole assy being al. has it's benifits to try and keep the thermal constant issue at bay.



Can we ever forget the Vega and it's al. (tin can) block. I would have liked to have read that preproduction, qual report. Chevy tried something new, but it failed. It happens. Again spent about 10 years as a toyota fanatic and had my fill of al heads. And saw my father's Isuz and Mitshubishi (sp?) 4 banger p/u's with Al heads loose the head gaskets and warp the heads from hot runs.

Just because I hate al heads, doesnt mean they'll go away.



Ya thats funny about the coke cans. . , here on the TDR board there was a fun thread, we figured if we saved all of our soda and beer cans and donated them to GM , we could help lower the price of the Dmax for the GM buyers... . and help get more on the street to get on with the true life reliability testing.



As far as the car hauler. . I guess we should do what the Chevy guys do everytime we say a Dmax blew up. . what's the Vin numbers?



Btw, how long is it now for the Dmax? I would swear it's just about 1. 5 years. . but not sure. Could swear it was the summer before last or the fall when I test drove one.

 

[rob10858]

we kind of wandered off the subject... but i'll give the duramax a fair amt of time before flaming it. we have problems with all of our brands. the difference is between down time and irritating things. the latest manifold bolt problem, that we are having now with our 2001 ctd's is a minor thing. having a turbo blow, or a head crack is something that can put you out of service. those are the types of problems that we had with the evolution of the ford diesels. i hope that the dmax proves to be a good, dependable, motor. time will tell.

 

[_MACKIN]

BK,

I completely get where your coming from. I believe the real "variable" testing begins when it is put into the consumers hands... . You can only micro test in a controlled situation so long. When do you call the testing complete? At some point you got to build and ship... ..... And in some cases like the Vega ship and pray... ... That's what good OLE' Lee did with the Omni..... What ultimately happens long term with reliability with the Duramax it needs real world testing. Yes, it's been about a year and a half. They started production June of 2000. First ones hit in the South and west. I'm out east we had to wait till near the first of the year before I seen any, on the East coast, well in my area anyway.

I certainly believe that the Duramax is no replacement for the Cummins and its heritage that is never my point. Will it be a flop? I doubt that ole'Isuzie been building diesels for a while..... Thanks for your input I do appreciate it and I can learn a lot that's why I'm here. No hidden agenda. I'm fair and honest like FOX news LOL. I'm glad that over here unlike that Chevy board you tried to get on, I was allowed in to give my point of view. Sometimes I get a font lashing, but I know where I'm at. It was worth the price of admission.

As for being off topic well, It always happens when the "D" word is mentioned in this HOUSE... ... . Its like bringing a stranger home for dinner ... ... . Its kinda awkward ... ... ... Peace.

MAC Oo.

 

[BK]

Mac,



Thanks, the go arounds like these are cool. Get to hear all the different voices.



Almost anything will get a thread off topic around here...

Suspenions, auto vs manual, Limited slip vs open, tires, wax or even what to clean your windows with !!



But that's what's cool about this board. All sorts of experience and input for consumption.



-Bob

 

[CUMAPART]

Mac,

I work for a landscaping company. We really use our trucks. Every winter each truck gets a 9ft plow and a tailgate spreader bolted onto it and filled to the rim with salt. Depending on the storm you're out anywhere from 8 to as many as 33 hours straight (yeah I've plowed for 33hrs straight I don't recommend it).

Each summer they are expected to tow and tow heavy. The truck will get a load of stone or modified in the box and then hook up to a 20ft deck over trailer loaded with either a John Deere 250, 6675, 8875 or Bobcat T190 with whatever attatchments you need (backhoe, stone hound, auger, etc. Sometimes even the enclosed trailer that has everything in it, including the kitchen sink.

My boss is a Chevy man and yes I've been stuck before. This winter my boss had to abandon his 2001 6. 5 in the middle of a snow storm b/c of injector pump failure. What are you gonna do ***** happens. If you say the new DMAX is all that it's cracked up to be, well I think I might be able to make her labor a little bit. At work there is no break in period. Enjoy your ride Mac.

 

[azgearpro]

amcintyre, anytime your out in phx, i would be happy to rip the thin metal doors off your inferior truck. Put your money were your mouth is, I dont think your want to be gas truck would touch my 400h. p. little inline 6. I luv it when those cocky durapads want to race me. I hope you love your Jap Rig.

amcintyre



By the way that 400h. p. is off a dyno, Lets see your trcuk would actually dyno at about 245 h. p.

 

[DMoody]

I have a Dodge Cummins that I am very happy with, but I would love to buy a Suburban with the Duramax and Allison.

 

[_MACKIN]

azgearpro,



WOW, there nice to meet you too... ... . First off I live in CT, and when I go west I am in an AIRBUS. Also my D-MAX won't fit in my carry on due to the new restrictions... ... But thanks for the invite... . Out here in the East there are plenty of CUMMINS some fast, some slow. I have my fun. . After all I got nothing to prove..... Perhaps I'll take up one of my invites to a dyno run from the members here... So I'll get some numbers for ya to toss around... . You better get in out of the sun you seem a little HOT... ... Take care

MAC

 

[Breck]

amcintyre/ mac,



Some of us are glad you are here to give us your prospective, of your "inferior" truck



Thanks for joining the ranks of the cummins cult.



Be carefull, your next truck just might be a Cummins powered rig







V/R



Breck

 

[MCummings]

Ya,, me too.



I'm glad you are hear amcintyre and packman. It's cool to get stories striaght from a D-Max owner instead of from the the owner's mother in law's, Uncle's, son's, kid's neighbors. (or 3rd person shall we say)



My Dad owns a D-Max and I must say,, the D-Max does pull harder from a stop, but doesn't maintain speed as easily as the Cummins.



It takes about 3/4 throttle to maintain speed in the D-Max and about 3/4 throttle to maintain speed in the Cummins. But think,,,,

3/4 throttle on the D-max is 225HP @ crank.

3/4 throttle on the Cummins is 183HP @ crank.



When it comes to Towing heavy, HP gets you rolling and torque keeps you going,,,, That's why I bombed my Cummins. HP to get going,, and Torque to keep it there.



Merrick Cummings Jr



P. S. Dad loves his D-Max though,, all except MPG,, but what do you expect from a V-8 300Horse Diesel ?

 

[Steve Roseman]

Originally posted by azgearpro

amcintyre, anytime your out in phx, i would be happy to rip the thin metal doors off your inferior truck. Put your money were your mouth is, I dont think your want to be gas truck would touch my 400h. p. little inline 6. I luv it when those cocky durapads want to race me. I hope you love your Jap Rig.

amcintyre



By the way that 400h. p. is off a dyno, Lets see your trcuk would actually dyno at about 245 h. p.

azgearpro, I suppose next you are going to accuse Mac of being sponsored

Mac, Please don't think all of the TDR members are so narrow minded that we can't accept something different even though it's not the route we take.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

AS interesting and entertaining as those "300,000" mile stories concerning the DM are, they are HARDLY representative of the real, day-to-day operation MOST of us will be exposing OUR trucks to!



Real life hot-cold cycling, short hauls where the engine barely gets up to full temperature, long miles in stop-and-go traffic place stresses upon a vehicle that is UNtypical for trucks used in hotshot operation. THOSE trucks are rarely shut down, don't see the lubricant contamination caused by short hauls, and FAR less stop-and-go in-town traffic situations - they just spin their wheels steadily at freeway speed 24/7, rarely even slowing down or stopping.



Sure, I personally know one couple with both a Ford AND a Dodge diesel, used in towing and delivering RV's from up in Idaho - they put over 1 million miles on the Ford before retiring it, and now have a million miles on a '93 Dodge/Cummins 250 in the same service - all with minimal, normal replacements and repairs.



Do I consider THOSE examples "typical", or worthy of holding up as a "shining example" of what ALL of these engines will do - no way - fact is, even a GAS engine will do 300,000 miles in over-the-road service if not abused, and serviced reasonably well...



As far as the DM is concerned, we'll give it another couple of years, and several hundred thousand miles in TYPICAL user service before we get too excited, one way or another...



MEANWHILE, DM fans, spare us your enthusiastic NONtypical examples of engine superiority - the truth will out in its own good time, and in clear view for all to witness...