Flex-A-Lite fan vs. Horton vs. ...?

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A lot has been said about the pros and cons of the Horton fan. The extreme cost is the prohibitive factor for me. I called and spoke with the folks at Flex-A-Lite (1-800-851-1510 or www.flex-a-lite.com) about an application for the late model Rams outfitted with the Cummins. They do not currently have a fan designed for our application, but suggested they were working on something for it. The biggest fan, model 250, they have is 32. 25x 16 x 4. 50 inches in size and moves 5,200 CFM, retailing for approximately $399. 00.

The fan I am thinking this could give me an additional 15 HP or so, improve my mileage and speed up the warm up process in the winter. Is this adequate air movement to cool a stock or a BOMB'ed beast? I am concerned about adequate cooling down here in Georgia during the hot summer. Has anyone used an electric fan (Flex-A-Lite) to cool the ponies? Have you witnessed an improvement in power or mileage?

Any alternatives other than the Horton or the Flex-A-Lite which I may not be thinking of now?

Comments?! Suggestions?


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2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab, Short Bed 4 x 4 ETH/DEE, leather, camper/trailer, etc, etc... Future BOMBer!!!!

Life NRA Member

[This message has been edited by justme (edited 07-23-2000). ]

 

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Justme, sounds like the fan you speak of is a electrically driven version which would not cause a direct drag on the engine. Am I right so far? The people who have debated this in the past have suggested it would take a 20 horsepower motor to do the job the oem cooling fan does. That sounds extreme to me.

The fan thing has been an ongoing debate. Some folks who have purchased the Horton have said they cannot justify it but they would purchase another. It is not cold in my area so the quick warm up with the Horton off is not a concern for me. I am more interested in the ability to save the power otherwise used to drive the fan. I will check with the people at the company you mentioned. Thanks for posting the link.

By the way, Mike Vonada has been practicing with his hockey stick and he is about to knock this topic over to the products forum... YIKES!!! #ad

 

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Justme, I also agree with HVAC. The debate of required HP from an electric fan is somewhat jaded. In fear of attack, I might as well say it up front... Yes, it is true that an electric fan which can pull equal CFM as the stocker at max RPMs would take 20 or 25 HP. . Unfortunately this theory starts to fall apart the minute you put the vehicle in motion and incoming air begins to equal or surpass the CFM rating of the fan. Further diminished by the fact that most electric set-ups use 2,3 even 4 smaller fans to equal the CFM put out by 1 large metal crank driven fan. SO, you won't be seeing Flexalite attaching a 30HP motor to an electric fan. As for pulling hills. . Engines overheat for three main reasons. 1st. (By a Mile) lack of coolant system maintainance. 2nd. overloading. 3rd Combination of 1 + 2.
I have yet to hear about a blown motor because the fan died. (But, there's always a first!)

Besides, you guys all talk a good story about how you blow by the Powerstroke boys #ad

Except for the Cummins, all my vehicles have had electric set-ups. Eventually the Cummins will as well. About the only place the fans EVER turned on was sitting idle in traffic. I cannot ever recall them turning on while pulling a load, traversing hills or during normal driving.

BUT... we don't really have mountains here in PA. . More like big hills. Nor do I have a 5th wheel trailer which is loaded to the max. . I guess if we did. . I would probably just let things the way they are, or go for the Horton. Just in case. .

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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC. Everything but leather. PIAA driving lights, AMSOIL oil filter relocation system,Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs,Rhino Liner,K&N air filter. Somehow lost my silencer Ring.

 

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On my vacation trip I noticed some interesting cooling behavior which I recognized from standing next to our RAMS at Cummins west when they were on the dyno.

There I was east of Glacier National Park in moving traffic with the outside temp in the high 90's. My grill was covered in bugs and I had a screen (also packed with bugs) over the radiator.

I kept hearing this cycling roaring sound which I finally realized was the mechanical clutch on the fan kicking in and out.

I. E the clutch works, so how much drag can there be when the clutch is not engaged on the fan??? What then does the HORTON buy us??

Is it having the extra hp available after the truck is overheated in a load condition??

I am not trying to get flammed here, just trying to understand the reasoning. .

 

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I'm with you David. The only advantage I can see is slightly better warm up time with a non-turning Horton vs a clutched but still turning stocker. The stock fan clutch seems to operate well on my 99. Most of the time I see discussions about fans, they talk like the stock fan has no clutch. Does anyone know of any dyno comparisons of the HP loss of a decoupled fan clutch. Bet it wouldn't be more than a few ponies.
No offense to anyone who has purchased a Horton. I've bought many things just because I wanted one.
And to JustMe's topic of discussion, I've used flex fans on my hot rods in the past, and I like them compared to a rigid fan with no clutch, but I personally would rather have a "working" fan clutch. -Working- being a key word since the viscous coupling does wear out.


[This message has been edited by Turbo-6 (edited 07-24-2000). ]

 

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so... if you're alternator goes, both batteries drain real quick and you have no juice OR cooling?

The Horton is 0%/100% instead of something like 12%-87%.

I think beside the 12% drain when not needed, control is the big gain. You know there is a big hill 10 miles ahead, click it on and "pre-cool" the engine

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tedstruck 2500qc, no leather or abs
bigfoot & other travel pics 1500 bigfoot, no auto waterheater or microwave.
Cool Summit Pass Pics, & Alaska Journal

 

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I've run dual electric fans on my Jeep CJ-7 and they worked great. They really paid off when idleing around in the rocks. Who really needs the fan going when you're going 75mph? The only time my stock fan engages is when I'm stuck in traffic - at idle.

Here's my reasoning - I need a given CFM (ok, really mass flow) for the ambient air temp to maintain proper engine coolant temp at a given load. The nice thing about the electics is that they are 'sized' for a constant rpm that is totally indepent of engine rpm - they're pulling the same air whether I'm idling or at 3000rpm. The engine driven fan is 'sized' to provide the given CFM at a given rpm. I'm guessing that the stock fan is designed to pull max air flow at idle rpm's - worst case design point. My engine isn't at peak torque/hp so the 10,15,20 - pick your number - hp that is required to drive the fan is a much larger percentage of available power.
Their was a mileage improvement w/electric fans not to mention it didn't sound like I was on an aircraft carrier flight deck.

Bottom line - I'd run electics on my Cummins in a heart beat provided it is a quality product. The Horton runs a close second.

Brian

 

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David & Turbo,

The Dyno shows about a 25hp loss at maximum RPM's. . standing still. Go figure. . its on a Dyno. This estimate decreases as vehicle speed increases(more air flow). As far as your question of the fan clutch engaging and disengaging... Open your hood, and try spinning the fan. (MOTOR OFF OF COURSE!!) Not exactly free-moving... Granted, it is far better than a solid shaft, but not the same as one sitting motionless.

As for turning the fan on prior to pulling a hill. . that is almost fruitless for 2 reasons. As I said before, chances are, your speed is flowing more air than any fan can pull, 2nd, if things cool off, the thermostate closes. Negating your efforts.

Bottom line folks, your stocker works just fine. A Horton is better... but cost per gain puts it right up there with having your motor balanced and blue-printed. Ok. . Maybe that was a bad example, but you get my point.
An electric version will be somewhere between the two. Possibly the most cost effective. But again, rather pricey for what you are actually gaining.
As for the one of those flex-a-lites... Had one on a Mustang... Can you say Noisey!!

I may decide to go the Horton route some day, But I already realize this upgrade will mearly be a "nice" thing to have. Above all the claims of increased this. . that. . and the other. . The reduction in fan noise, drowning out the sound of the sweet Cummins... just might make it all seem worth the cost & effort for me...

If your looking for some amazing graph showing your Cummins with an extra 50hp or a 5 MPG increase... I think your looking in the wrong isle. .

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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC. Everything but leather. PIAA driving lights, AMSOIL oil filter relocation system,Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs,Rhino Liner,K&N air filter. Somehow lost my silencer Ring.

 

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The variable speed clutch fan is popular for several reasons. Primarily it saves fuel consumption. It reduces noise, and gives an increase in usable HP.

All these things togather make the fan drive very appealing to some people. It doesnt matter if its electrical, viscous, or pnuematic (Horton makes a Diesltemp fan clutch that engages by air psi and disengages by spring tension, and runs off a solenoid) the fact remains that the fan only runs when the engine warrants the operation. I am sure there are other fans out there for our ISB's that are in the varible speed family that cost less than the Horton model everyone is talking about.

Its kind of like the Banks argument. Yes it works and works well with my engine, BUT, is it worth all that extra money for me to gain so little? If I owned a fleet of trucks that were on the road 10-12 hours a day, then yes, they would all have a Horton fan clutch on them. After all, my goal is to save as much money in operating cost as possible for the company. If its for my own personal truck, I doubt I would ever see the cost savings to pay for the product in a 5 year timeframe.

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Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, custom built boost module, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple black 340 car w/air! Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
NRA Life Member.

 

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My darned stock fan runs at full engagement first thing in the morning. It causes a HUGE cloud of dust driving down the alley from my garage. It quiets down about 2-3 blocks down the street, or sooner if I really rev it up. This may be due to my garage being hot even in the morning (at least 80-90F) and the engine/coolant may be rather warm still from the night before. This time of year it's over 90 all the time and my fan is moving a lot of air constantly. If for nothing else a Flex-a-lite or Horton with a manual shut-off would be nice so I can drive up my alley without creating a dust storm #ad


Vaughn

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<font color = blue>2001 Ram 2500 QC SWB 2wd, Patriot Blue/Driftwood, HO Cummins & 6-speed, 3. 54LSD, Cab & Fog lamps, Camper & Tow Pkg.
BOMBings: K&N RE0880 that stops most of the dirt, straight piped, debadged body, AutoMeter Sport Comp gauges, Amber turn signals, 55w halogen rev. lights, removed overloads
Performance: 245rwHP on BD Dyno, 0-60@ 11. 5 sec 18/22 mpg city/hiway
11,614 miles (7/19/00)

 

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If the fan is overwhelmed by the 75 MPH wind on the highway, and it never completely disengages, wouldn't the air overdrive the fan and turn the belt and turn the motor etc... giving you more power? Drink a couple shots of WILD TURKEY and you will see the logic. #ad
#ad


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1998. 5 QC 2500 4X4 24 VALVE, INTENSE BLUE, 235-85 MICHELIN, BANKS STINGER,DD Stage1 injectors

 

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Scotch works to... .

Hmmm maybe HVAC can mount a windmill on the back of his truck and use it to run his fuel pump and cooling system... etc