Fluid recommendations?

[PLaFrombois]

I have to agree with Wayne about using any of the 5W-30 oils from Amsoil. I went to NV regarding the "after market" lubricant for this transmission. When I purchase my next truck it'll have the 5600. I wanted to confirm, when that time comes, I could keep using the Amsoil products. I asked "What could be used instead of the mopar fluid you'd get from the dealer?" The tech said that the 5600 uses a synthetic 30-weight oil. He also said I could use any high quality multi-grade 5W-30 SYNTHETIC OIL. The oil oil has to have an additive for the synchronized gears. This additive is found in the higher end Synthetic 5W-30 oils. This was later confirmed with a call to an Amsoil tech.

I've had to do some research regarding my next truck, and I've been reading the old issues of the TDR. I came across a section in "The Shade Tree" in Issue #37 page 105 talking about the NV5600.

"The New Venture 5600 gearbox uses a synthetic 30-weight oil. From New Venture literature we know to use the Mopar 4874464 part number. However, Pennzoil Synchromesh, 30-weight, synthetic fluid has been confirmed as an acceptable alternative. " This was from our own Robert Patton.

If you have questions regarding what can be used instead of OEM, call New Venture and ask.

Paul

Yes, I am an Amsoil Dealer

 

[Horsepuller]

Where do you guys get the MTL Redline or Syncromesh. The autoparts stores around here SUCK. On-line ordering????

 

[Hohn]

I have the NV-5600 6 spd. trans, with 41,000 miles, it seems to shift a little more difficult at times especially in reverse, I would like to switch out the factory lube with Redline MTL... how may Qts. or gallons should I buy? Does the MTL only come in one weight, if so what is it, or which do I need?

5600 holds 9. 8 pts, so get 5 quarts of the lube you choose and you'll be fine.



Justin

 

[Hohn]

Where do you guys get the MTL Redline or Syncromesh. The autoparts stores around here SUCK. On-line ordering????

I've had to order the stuff online almost all the time. The local AutoZone just started carrying the Redline, but only the gasser oils, no specialty items.



jlh

 

[Hohn]

Wayne, Peter:



I'm glad to hear that people have had good results thus far with the HDD 5-30 in the 5600.



I have used and confidently recommend Amsoil products (they make some awesome ATF in particular, and I've had good results with their engine oil in gassers).



My gripe isn't with amsoil at all. I'm not even sure I have a gripe!



My point is just what I said originally: engines and transmissions have different lubricating needs. Any product designed primarily for one, therefore, cannot be optimized for the other. Transmissions have different frictional requirements, different operating temps, different shear levels, etc...



As for the tech's recommendation of a 30wt, I suspect he may have been concerned more about viscosity than additive package or anything like that. MTL, Synchromax, The Pennzoil lube, etc are all 30wt equivalent lubes.



Why does DC ship the transmission with a special lube in it when engine oil will work just fine? I mean, at a price difference of $4/qt (syn motor oil vs syn transmission lube), times 5qts per truck, times 100,000 trucks a year or so, they could easily save the company TWO MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.



I can guarantee that if there was a way to save 2 million dollars a year, DC would have explored it.



Why does DC spec a special lube for the trans (that's expensive and hard to find) when "the NV tech" says engine oil is fine? Does DC develop their own specs or just go with what the manufacturer tells them?



I suspect that the DC spec comes from NV. I can't explain the disconnect at NV as to why they might tell DC one thing and tell us another.



Heck, why does the 4500 need different lube than the 5600? Maybe they have different lube needs?



If you want to say that people have had good results with Amsoil HDD in the trans, I won't and can't dispute that. I wish them many more happy miles, and I trust that this proves to be a good option long term.



But if you want to talk about the general principle of using an engine oil in a transmission, I will argue about that all day.



Why? Because knowing something is a certain way isn't good enough for me-- I want to know WHY. WHY can Amsoil make a lube that seems to meet two mutually exclusive competing lubrication requirements?



I wish someone could answer the following for me:

-- why does DC not spec engine oil in the trans (in light of the $$ savings)?

-- where does the DC spec come from, and if not NV, why not? If it IS NV, then why are their techs telling us something else?



Submitted for your consideration,

Justin

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne, Peter:

I wish someone could answer the following for me:

-- why does DC not spec engine oil in the trans (in light of the $$ savings)?

-- where does the DC spec come from, and if not NV, why not? If it IS NV, then why are their techs telling us something else?



Submitted for your consideration,

Justin

I can not answer your question regarding "why does DC not spec engine oil in the trans (in light of the $$ savings)?" But I can tell you MOST all specifications come from the manufacturer of the product. When it comes to lubes, the Lubricant manufacturer then makes their lube to conform to that specification, using parameters from the Governing group for that lube. In the case of transmissions, it is the (API) American Petrolium Institute. They use a system of SERVICE CLASSIFICATIONS.

NOTE: GL stands for Gear Lube.



GL-1- Truck Manual transmissions (Engine oil) GL-1 products DO NOT CONTAIN OR REQUIRE EXTREME PRESSURE (EP) ADDITIVES.



GL-2- Worm Gear Drive, Industrial gear oils.

GL-3- Manual transmissions and spiral drives.

GL-4- Manual transmissions, spiral bevel and Hypoid gears in moderate service. 50% additive treat level of GL-5.

GL-5- Moderate and severe service in Hypoid and other types of gears, may also be used in manual transmissions.

MT-1 Nonsynchronized manual transmissions in Heavy-Duty service. (effects Yellow metals without producing corrosive by-products)



Engine oils are typically used in applications in which EP additives are not required or in non-severe service in which fuel economy is a predominat concern. They may also be recommended in equipment containing corrosive sensitive components such as Copper, Brass and Bronze. A typical application for GL-1 engine oil would be a manual transmission in a CLASS 8 truck!



As with ALL lubricants, a gear oil's Viscosity is its most IMPORTANT property! To simplify lubricant selection, VISCOSITY grading systems have been developed by a number of organizatons, one of them is the (SAE) Society of Automotive Engineers.



The SAE Viscosity grading system lists requirements for BOTH single and MULTI-GRADE gear lubricants. Typical grades are SAE 80, 90, 140, 75W-90 and 85W-140. This grading system does not differentiate between EP and NON-EP fluids as some grading systems do.



When comparing SAE gear oil grades with SAE engine oil grades, the grade numbers ae always larger. This may lead one to beleive that gear oils are more VISCOUS (heavier) than engine oils. The truth is, in many cases they are not. An SAE 90 Gear oil for example may have the same VISCOSITY of a SAE 40 or 50 grade engine oil. In the case of a SAE 30 grade engine oil, it falls between an 80W and 85W gear oil.



I might also add the LUBRICANT manufacturer has to use (ASTM) American Standards Testing Measures test methods using tests appropriate for that lube specification.



Hope this helps.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Hohn]

It does help and it doesn't. I'm aware that Gear oil and Motor oil SAE viscosity specs are apples and oranges.



The NV vs DC spec mystery will have to remain one for now.



Your comments on gear oil are why I look at BOTH the GL rating and the SAE viscosity. The EP additives in most GL-5 lubes are harmful to synchros (yellow metal) from what I understand.



Oh well. I do appreciate you taking the time to make a good post-- hopefully this will be a good reference for future searches.



While some have had good experience with engine oil in the trans, I'll still say that an engine and a transmission have different lube needs and what works best in one isn't the best in the other. Would you run Redline MTL in your engine??



Justin

 

[amsoilman]

Justin,

Have you ever seen a Motorcycle that uses the Motor oil in the crankcase as well as the transmission, because they are inter-connected? Example:Honda FL250 transmission is combined with the engine and final drive/shaft drive, and calls for a 10W-40 SJ/SL engine oil.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Elite1]

I went to the Redline site and they have a convenient page that you can enter your zip code and find the retailer closest to your home... found one 5 miles away! 8. 99 a Qt. for Redline MTL... . here is the site: http://www.redlineoil.com/dealers.asp

 

[Horsepuller]

Thanks, I tried that link, just get Autozones, which are awful. And they don't carry the Redline M. transmission lube. , they do carry other Redline products but not the ones I need.

 

[Rman]

I remember reading a while back that DC goes with that "special" lube because it is the ONLY lube NVG tested in the 5600 trans. That means, NVG will not stand behind the 5600 if any other lube is used, simply because they didn't test it with any other. IMHO this does not mean other lubes can't be used... it's a cop out by NVG and DC so they don't have to warranty anything.



I see no problem with using superior lubricants, especially when it comes to severe environments like transmissions and axle assemblies.



Wayne is beginning to convince me about the oil. I originally stood with Hohn on the issue about different requirements for different environments... but my kids dirtbike does use 10w-30 oil in the transmission case. To each his own I guess. No matter how you look at it, if your not using that cheesy DC fluid your "wrong" so to speak. Personally any chance I can to show up DC i'm taking... I can fix my own truck they can keep their beloved "warranty".

 

[Hohn]

Justin,

Have you ever seen a Motorcycle that uses the Motor oil in the crankcase as well as the transmission, because they are inter-connected? Example:Honda FL250 transmission is combined with the engine and final drive/shaft drive, and calls for a 10W-40 SJ/SL engine oil.



Wayne

amsoilman

Apparently, this is quite common. I'd be willing to bet that these transmissions are DESIGNED to be lubed by engine oil.



Maybe the 5600 is, maybe it isn't. We'll know for sure when and if anyone ever has probs with HDD, MTL, Synchromax, etc...



jlh

 

[Silver_Ram]

RMAN,



Where are you getting the Royal Purple. The only place I can find most of the products is at Dodge Dealers. Trying to stay away from them.



Thanks,



Troy

 

[rweis]

I get my royal purple from www.oiltown.com.



Bob Weis

 

[Rman]

I think I bought my last batch at www.rpmoil.com I did find it locally one time... but it was a drive and there wasn't any savings over internet order. So I just online it now.

 

[Silver_Ram]

Rman & rweis,



Thanks for the information.



Troy

 

[Rman]

Hey I didn't notice you lived in UT till now. I found the local RP oil supplier, it's in North Salt lake off 9th west. You still have to buy by the case, and it was no cheaper than ordering it off the net. BUT... if you're in a pinch and need the oil pronto, they had everything readily available on hand. Just a heads up incase you screw up like I did and be a quart shy of full on the transmission! haha



I'll see if I can dig up the address... it was a pain to find the first time I remember.