Flying J to Bio Blend

[CSkal]

Just fueled up last night and noticed that my local Flying J is now selling blended biodiesel instead of straight petro based diesel that my truck has lived on since new. The sticker bothers me though, it notes that the blend may be between 5 and 20%. Not very accurate, are we?

The 5. 9 is OK'd by cummins up to B20, correct? How much crap is this new (to me) blend going to clean out of my fuel system and how often should I change my fuel filters during the intital few tankfuls?

 

[AH64ID]

Dodge/Cummin's okay's B5, and up to B20 with additional fuel/water separation and filtration.

 

[Dieselnerd]

We've had a biodiesel blend here in Minnesota for several years now. I noticed that the filter was a very dark gray color the first time I changed it but other than that, I've been changing at 12-15K with no problems. The engine seems to like the biodiesel and it runs quieter than when I am traveling in other states with ordinary diesel.

 

[HBarlow]

When the Flying J in Lubbock began selling that crap a year or so ago I immediately quit purchasing fuel there. When I looked around I found that SAM's Club diesel was about $0. 12 to $0. 15 per gallon cheaper than FJ anyway. Haven't bought anymore FJ fuel since.

 

[Dieselnerd]

HBarlow, we have no choice here. Our "Nanny State" mandates biodiesel so we have to live with it. They plan to gradually raise the amount in the blend. It started at B2 and I believe it's B5 now.



Some of the state trucks had problems early on with mucus like stuff in the filters. They solved that with some formula changes that were not published as far as I know. Works fine now.

 

[Quilbilly brian]

I plan on using Bio diesel on my next trip. I found a site that shows all the retail outlets that sell it. Only 3 in Montana. Lots in Oregon, Washington,and Idaho. What gives Montana! I would think there would be more bio diesel use in your state

 

[TCDiesel]

HBarlow, we have no choice here. Our "Nanny State" mandates biodiesel so we have to live with it. They plan to gradually raise the amount in the blend. It started at B2 and I believe it's B5 now.



Some of the state trucks had problems early on with mucus like stuff in the filters. They solved that with some formula changes that were not published as far as I know. Works fine now.

X2. . MN Bio-Diesel is the best fuel in the Nation... Period... NEVER add additive of any sort to Bio-Diesel. Only under Extreme situations should and type of conditioner be added. Refined commercial Bio-Diesel will add lubricity.

 

[RobertHiltz]

No additives needed with MN Bio-Diesel. Does better for added lubricity than any commercial fuel additive product on the market. Some of the name brand additives do little to no good at all.

 

[HBarlow]

Dodge owners manuals and Cummins have been telling owners since before I bought my first one that fuel additives are not necessary or recommended. I've personally put more than 650,000 miles on three Cummins powered Dodges and never used a drop of fuel additive except anti-gel during the winter when I was traveling through cold country. I have never replaced an injector or injection pump due to fuel issues. I did replace one VP-44 but it was a mistake, did not cure the problem, and the VP-44 was sold and installed in another truck where it worked fine.

Perhaps that is the reason why fuel additives are not needed with farmer welfare fuel.

 

[RobertHiltz]

The new Ultra Low Sulfur diesel fuel is what has changed things. The refining process has also stripped away the fuels lubricating properties. Very "dry" fuel. Some oil companies put additives in their fuel to compensate for the dry fuel. Cummins sells additives too. If you are unlucky enough to buy untreated fuel, it will not meet Cummins or any engine manufacturer lubricity requirements. I believe the standards for testing lubicity are measured in resulting wear.

 

[HBarlow]

The new Ultra Low Sulfur diesel fuel is what has changed things. The refining process has also stripped away the fuels lubricating properties. Very "dry" fuel. Some oil companies put additives in their fuel to compensate for the dry fuel. Cummins sells additives too. If you are unlucky enough to buy untreated fuel, it will not meet Cummins or any engine manufacturer lubricity requirements. I believe the standards for testing lubicity are measured in resulting wear.

Where can I find that information in Cummins or fuel industry literature?

It true, I wonder why Cummins, Inc. or Ram, both companies that provide warranties on the engines, don't discuss it or recommend additives in owner's manuals or other literature.

No personal offense is intended, but in my opinion, the information posted here in this thread is nothing more than internet rumor, speculation, and unsupported opinions.

I have 104k on my '08 ISB6. 7. It has only used ULSD and CJ oils. No mention of adding anything else in my owner's manual and no issues whatsoever.

 

[Jim W]

I agree with Harvey also, I just checked the Clean Diesel Fuel web site and I did not find any warnings to the lubricity of ULSD fuel. Clean Diesel Fuel Alliance Information Center - Government - Industry - Consumers

What source are you using for your statement? When I make a blanket statement like you did. I try to provide the link and source of my information, so others can read and digest this information also. If this is your opinion than state that this is my opinion.

Jim W.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm thinking about opening a special bank account titled Fuel Additives, Oil Additives, Aftermarket Air Filters, and Aftermarket Exhaust.

I'm going to publish the account number here on TDR. The bank account will have strict use rules so that anyone can make deposits into the account, but only myself, the account owner, can make withdrawals.

All Ram truck owners and TDR members will be permitted to make any deposits they wish, no limitations on the number of times they can deposit or the amount.

I will provided a 100% written warranty that deposits into my account will work as advertised everytime it is used. I will also issue a 100% written warranty that my account deposits will not void your truck or engine warranty and will cause no damage or wear to your trucks or engines.

I'll be rich in no time.

 

[mwilson]

I'm thinking about opening a special bank account titled Fuel Additives, Oil Additives, Aftermarket Air Filters, and Aftermarket Exhaust.



I'm going to publish the account number here on TDR. The bank account will have strict use rules so that anyone can make deposits into the account, but only myself, the account owner, can make withdrawals.



All Ram truck owners and TDR members will be permitted to make any deposits they wish, no limitations on the number of times they can deposit or the amount.



I will provided a 100% written warranty that deposits into my account will work as advertised everytime it is used. I will also issue a 100% written warranty that my account deposits will not void your truck or engine warranty and will cause no damage or wear to your trucks or engines.



I'll be rich in no time.

Sign me up Harvey, if you can get that going I will toss this dealership career so fast it will make your head spin!!!!!!!!

An enterprise built on promises rather than performance, Sheer Genius!!!:-laf:-laf

No more worries about parts availability, my service department or any of that other gucky stuff.



I'm in... ... ... ... ... .



Mike.

 

[RobertHiltz]

Harvey, I don't know where you can look to verify what I posted. I only posted a very small amout of information on the subject taken from a internal corporate document that I do not have the authority to post. My post is not just my opinion. Low Sulfur fuel contained less than 500 ppm sulfur. Ultra Low Sulfur contains less than 15 ppm. The refining process for ULSD has stripped away much of the lubricity of the base fuel product. Also it would be a good bet that the fuel you purchase at Walmart has lubricity additives blended into it.

 

[HBarlow]

Sign me up Harvey, if you can get that going I will toss this dealership career so fast it will make your head spin!!!!!!!!
An enterprise built on promises rather than performance, Sheer Genius!!!:-laf:-laf
No more worries about parts availability, my service department or any of that other gucky stuff.

I'm in... ... ... ... ... .

Mike.

Mike,

I'd be delighted to have you with your long experience in parts and parts marketing as a partner. How about an equal partnership?

It's an easy investment to buy into because the initial investment is very low.

 

[HBarlow]

Robert,

Isn't your position that ULSD with a reduced sulfur content means reduced fuel lubricity and is therefore harmful to diesel injection pumps and injectors based on little more than opinion and what is written on aftermarket additive product package labels?

Is sulfur truly a lubricant and is the reduction of sulfur truly a detriment to our engines? I am not a mechanical or petroleum engineer and don't have my own answers to those questions.

I believe I remember reading in a Joe Donnelly article on the subject that it is not a big deal and does not require additives. Our own TDR writer Joe Donnelly is a Ph. D. chemist as well as a self-trained diesel expert. I am not certain of reading that or when or where, just a vague memory.

Issues like this are simple for me. I TRUST Cummins and Ram engineers to build the best products they can under the limitations of budgets and regulations. I do not see conspiracies behind every tree (not saying you do) and do not believe I am smarter than the engineers of either of those companies. Those companies build the best products they know how to build and provide the warranties. I trust them to advise me correctly because my satisfaction with their products is in their best interests as well as my own.

Until Cummins or Ram tell me in writing I must add additives to maintain my warranty or to achieve long service life on their products I am confident I don't need to purchase and pour any magical snake oil in my crankcase or fuel tanks.

 

[tempforce]

back to the bio-diesel... .

oregun is planning to mandate 10% bio in diesel. (currently it's 5%)

and 15% ethanol in gasoline. (currently 10%)

sometime in the next few months.

 

[RobertHiltz]

Harvey,

You keep stating that my information comes from either internet BS or a aftermarket company. Simply not true, in fact I am not a proponent of aftermaket additives period. I did not state that the sulfur in fuel provided the lubricity. What I said was the process to remove sulfur degrades the lubricity of the fuel. You will not see in your owners manual that you need to use any aftermarket additives. The suppliers of diesel fuels do have to meet minimum U. S. standards. The problem is that the gov. standard is for much less lubricity rating than the Engine Manufacturers Association recommends. This thread is about low percentage Bio diesel. 2% Bio provides better lubricity fuel than any other fuel additive. The studies that proved that are two or three years old and new products may have been developed since. 2% Bio meets the Engine Manufacturers Association wear scar specs.

 

[NavyDood]

Granted this is from 2003, but it covers HPCR systems.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf