Follow-Up Jacobs Exhaust Brake Malfunctioning

[HBarlow]

For Carlton Bale:



Carlton, I visited my selling dealer as I indicated in my last post on this subject. I provided a copy of your post to the TDR forum and explained your position with Cummins.



The service manager and technician accepted your suggestion and were very cooperative. The technician ran the diagnostics on my truck and told me no error codes had been set. He attempted to order the APPS under the STAR system but told me it was declined by Dodge. The service manager/service writer tried every way they knew to obtain the revised APPS under warranty but were unsuccessful.



I told them to order the part and I would pay for it until they advised me the cost. I was told the price was about $450 for the APPS plus one and one half hours labor!!



To refresh your memory, my truck has around 66k on the odometer. Dodge's apparent interpretation is that the part is not an engine part and therefore is no longer covered under warranty. I thought the APPS was either part of the engine and covered for 100k or was an emission control item which would have also been covered. Since Dodge is aware of a compatibility issue between the factory electronic cruise control and the approved and dealer-sold and dealer-installed Jacobs Exhaust Brake, I would expect Dodge to be a little more helpful. I have not made any further attempt to pursue the issue.



Any suggestions?



Harvey

 

[Carlton Bale]

Harvey,



First of all, as you stated, this is an APPS problem and not a brake problem. Just want to be clear on that.



The APPS (throttle position sensor) is covered under warranty. There will not be a fault code associated with this issue, only the symptom of the exhaust brake not engaging after using cruise control.



Have your dealer call Star again and tell Star to contact Cummins. Cummins has a group that supports calls from Star. Have Star mention my name to the Cummins group and they will give me a call if necessary. I've already informed our internal group so there should be no problems. Also, you can let me know who your contact is at the dealer and I'll give them a call.

 

[gitchesum]

Friends, this is what TDR is all about. People helping people.

 

[HBarlow]

Carlton,



I'll look for a business card or notes in my notebook tonight for the name(s) of the Director of Parts and Service and/or Service Manager of the dealership. The dealership has changed service managers twice fairly recently so I am not certain of the names. I'll post them to you when I am sure of their accuracy.



I'll also call the dealership tomorrow and pass on your instructions to recontact Star and encourage them to contact Cummins and yourself if necessary.



Carlton, even if I end up paying for an APPS out of my own pocket because Dodge somehow disagrees or disapproves my request, I want you to know that I appreciate very much your advice and assistance. The assistance you provide to TDR members is, in my opinion, a reflection of the outstanding attitude of Cummins toward it's products and it's customers. I tell everyone I come in contact with about the outstanding quality of Cummins engines, Exhaust Brakes, and corporate attitude.



I have not read posts by Ford-Navistar or Chevrolet-Isuzu owners on their respective websites writing about how well they were treated by the companies who manufacture their trucks, engines, or other accessories.



Harvey

 

[HBarlow]

Carlton:



I phoned my selling dealer tonight and got the names needed. I don't live in the same town. I live 300+ miles away.



The dealership is: Glenn Polk Autoplex in Gainesville, TX. The toll free number is: (800) 379-9883. The toll number is (940) 665-3461. This is a dual brand store selling Ford and Chrysler lines. They are good people.



The Director of Parts and Service is Andy Surrite. He also serves as Service Manager, according to the receptionist.



The Service Writer/Advisor who wrote up the work order for me was Don.



The date of my work order was 04/07/03 and the invoice number was CHCS35668.



The owner's name on the work order is myself, Harvey Barlow.



The truck is a 2001 Dodge Ram 3500 with Cummins HO and NVG 6 speed manual transmission purchased new, by myself, from this dealer. This dealer sold and installed the Cummins Exhaust Brake, at my request, before I took delivery.



Cryptic notes on the work order include "STAR 9142 BILL"



I will call Mr. Surrite tomorrow morning early and advise him of the instructions you provided to me. If you call later, he should know who you are and why you are calling when he takes the call.



Again, I appreciate your help.



Harvey

 

[HBarlow]

Carlton:



I just spoke with Andy Surritte, the Director of Parts and Service and Service Manager at Glenn Polk Autoplex. He remembered the details of my problem and my recent visit. I read your e-mail message on this thread to him over the phone. He was completely supportive of my effort and said he will do as you suggested and call STAR this morning.



The sticking point in this situation seems to be the APPS is a non-stocked item according to what STAR told the dealership. STAR requires the dealership to report a fault code in order to ship the part. Since, as you explained, the computer doesn't produce a fault code, STAR views this as a non-problem and won't ship the part.



If Andy Surritte can get STAR to listen and contact Cummins as you suggested, I am confident the issue will be resolved.



Harvey

 

[Carlton Bale]

Harvey,



Yesterday, someone from our DaimlerChrysler team contacted one of the heads of the Star group and gave them details of the problem. If all goes as it should have, the next call to Star should be successful.



I'll call the dealer today to follow-up. We'll get this issue resolved.

 

[HBarlow]

Carlton:



I appreciate your efforts.



I'm sure that somewhere out there other Dodge-Cummins owners with electronic cruise control and exhaust brakes which require a closed-throttle signal from their APPS to permit brake actuation will also be grateful.



Harvey

 

[RustyTRanch]

I had the same thing happen to me on last haul.

I used cruise for 3 hours straight went to pull in rest park and nothing happened. Did not shut truck off and ran another 3. 5 hours and stopped to eat and unload truck. 3 hours later back on road for trip home and I did not set the cruise and brake worked fine. I had no idea what was going on at the time. A few days later found this topic and it all fell together.

Thanks for the heads up on the solution to this problem. I was going to ask this same question also I guess I will have to find a dealer now too.

thanks for the info

mike

 

[HBarlow]

RustyTRanch:



The symptoms you described are exactly the same I have experienced. By the time you contact a Dodge dealer STAR will probably be aware of the problem and will be able to help your dealer on the first call.



If we were not members of the TDR, and not fortunate to receive the information, advice, and assistance provided by Carlton Bale, we'd have to either live with the problem, bypass the ECM, or pay a hefty bill at a Dodge dealer for a new APPS plus labor to install. Membership in the TDR is a bargain!



Harvey

 

[HBarlow]

The service manager at my selling dealership called yesterday. He had good news and bad news.



The good news: Dodge/STAR says I should replace my APPS (accelerator pedal position sensor) with an upgraded part. The bad news: It is a Dodge part covered by the initial 3 year/36k warranty only. My truck has 68k on the odometer so the part will not be covered under warranty.



So I'm back where I started.



Carlton, I appreciate your efforts to help me. Who actually manufactures the part? Does Cummins manufacture the part for Dodge or does Dodge outsource the APPS from another supplier?



Can anyone suggest a MOPAR dealer who offers price discounted parts?



Harvey

 

[Paychk]

Someone here on the TDR posted this place, they advertise 30% discount on factory Dodge parts.



http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=213794



I believe they are located in New Jersey.

 

[HBarlow]

Alan,



Thanks for posting a discounted parts source. I'll contact them when I know what to order.



The thought has occured to me..... how do I identify the "revised" APPS? Does the "revised" APPS have a different part number than the original APPS installed in my truck. How do I know when I lay out $300 - $400 for a new APPS that I'm not getting one identical to my original which has been lying on the shelf somewhere for a couple years... . and will not allow my exhaust brake to operate when I'm using cruise control?



Anyone know the part number for the original APPS or how I can obtain it? How about a part number for the "revised" APPS.



Thanks,

Harvey

 

[Carlton Bale]

Harvey,



Here are the DCX part numbers for the latest APPS:



Manual transmission 53031576AC

Automatic transmission 53031575AF



Edit: by the way, there is no corresponding Cummins part number. This is a DCX part.



-Carlton

 

[yogibear]

Carlton, is there any preventive maintenance to do to the Jacobs brake, or the vacuum pump for the 03's? I don't know if I did not get any paper work for mine from dlr. , or if I have misplaced it. Thanks,



Larry

 

[Carlton Bale]

Originally posted by yogibear

Is there any preventive maintenance to do to the Jacobs brake, or the vacuum pump for the 03's?

Larry,



There is no maintenance for either the brake or the vacuum pump. It was designed to be as hassle-free as possible. If you'd like a copy of any of the literature, it's available here:



http://www.jakebrake.com/content.php4?doc uid=73

 

[PLaFrombois]

Is the APPS easy to install, and do you need any special tools? I went to the dealer because I thought my lift pump was going bad, and it turned out to be a malfunctioning APPS. The tech couldn't reproduce similar problems and didn't find any fault codes. They said it only had a variation of 10 degrees. It wasn't worth replacing at this time, and it isn't covered under warranty.

Paul

 

[Carlton Bale]

I haven't replaced one of these myself but as I understand it, it is a fairly simple process. The APPS is reasonably accessible and no special tools are required. It's basically the sensor that connects to the foot pedal cable near the firewall.