Food for thought

[MarkChapman]

"PickupTrucks.com and MrTruck.com Heavy Duty 2010 truck shootout"

 

[craiggo]

I thought about it and still bought a Ram (after previously owning two Fords). For me, the acceleration differences and the gamble of new motors wasn't worth the risk. And that doesn't even take into consideration the Ram was $10K cheaper fully loaded.

I'm not filling my DEF or sending Holiday cards to my Service Tech at the dealer. Matter of fact, I've never even been back to the dealer since I purchased my Ram.

It's a good article regardless where you stand.

 

[RonD]

I took the test with a grain of salt, but there are a few facts, Ford has it over Dodge on a few things, rear view mirrors, tele steering wheel, brake controller, the seats don't vibrate on the bucket seats, weight (they have more of something there 500 pounds heavier) free wheeling front hubs, a 6 speed trans that can take 800 pounds of torque, optional 5th wheel hitch mount, 2" wider interior, less noise, better fuel economy. The Dodge on the other hand is $3000 to $5000 grand less at invoice ( compared option to option ), has a little better looking body, has a Cummins, but the present engine will change next year to something that has higher HP and torque numbers, it's a shame they have a chance to be #1, but sadly have been #3 since the start, Ford has been #1 for a long time, there 2011 is selling 200% better than expected as per Fords claims. I am replacing my 2005 in 6 months, I am really looking for Dodge to update there truck the way I want it, if not I will just order a new F350.

 

[BEmmert]

Looks like they are all very capable rigs each with their own good and bads, but in the end they are all really close to eachother. I think there is some bias going on with the Chevy/GMC, but that is a nice looking rig and if it performs like it says well then I guess I will be needing a programmer to keep up. What they described for the 2010 Dodge is exactly how I feel mine performs and I am not overly impressed with its performance. Sure nice to drive though, but for almost 50k I would expect better trans programing and cooling along with more power. What I find most interesting is that all three produce max torque now around 1500-1600rpms. Guess Cummins no longer has the advantage there... .

 

[craiggo]

These are all great points. I feel like Dodge has gone at this kinda half ***. I mean they did a great job with the new interiors but, I would like to see them spend some time (and I mean serious time) with people who tow full time. Really go after it. Give us the opportunity to see EGT temps, full traction control with anti-sway, paddle brake for the trailer, max-brake integrated TBC.

500 RWH and 1000 tq. This is all not out of the question..... it would certainly improve sales.

 

[Powder Extreme]

These are all great points. I feel like Dodge has gone at this kinda half ***. I mean they did a great job with the new interiors but, I would like to see them spend some time (and I mean serious time) with people who tow full time. Really go after it. Give us the opportunity to see EGT temps, full traction control with anti-sway, paddle brake for the trailer, max-brake integrated TBC.



500 RWH and 1000 tq. This is all not out of the question..... it would certainly improve sales.

Throw in a better ride and better fuel mileage with an 8' box megacab and you'd have the perfect truck!

 

[rscurtis]

One thing to keep in mind is that when (if) Ram goes to the torque #'s of the other trucks, you can kiss your stick shift goodbye. That much torque will require the use of a true MD truck transmission and an even heavier driveline.



Perhaps that is one of the reasons Ford and GMC dropped the stick, the ZF6 was only rated for 520 ft/lbs. Note also that the current Ram is torque limited to 600 ft/lbs with the G56 transmission.

 

[AHarris]

The F250/350 looks like a nice truck (the old ones did too) but the motor looks like a nightmare to work on. Is there a motor somewhere under that incredible monstrosity of hoses, 3 EGR coolers, two turbos and plastic parts?? Ford's coachwork is nice, but their track record with first year motors (6. 0, 6. 4) stinks. Add to that the fact that you have to take the cab off the truck to do major engine work and that makes it too much of a risk to me. The urea tank isn't a big deal, but just another thing to worry about. The Chevy/GMC is not a bad truck either, but they about 10K more than the Dodge and their interiors are not as good as the new Rams and the back seats are smaller. I know a couple guys who love their Duramaxes and have a friend who's got 130K on his 6. 0 Powerstroke with no problems (he might be one of the lucky ones).

HP/torque figures are nice, but the Cummins is the only medium duty engine in the lineup, far and away the better overall motor and one better suited for the long haul. If I want 500HP and 1,000lbs of torque I can Bullydog my Cummins.

I've never seen anyone put a Powerstroke in a Ram, but lots of folks transplant Cummins engines into their F-Series Superduties. Methinks there's a reason for that.

If horsepower/torque numbers and a carlike driving experience are what you're after, then follow the latest truck test fad and get a Ford. As for me, I prefer to spend less money, get the every day reliability and simplicity of the straight 6 Cummins, and not have to be a beta tester for another one of Ford's Better Ideas or drive an Isuzu made Japanese V8. No thanks. If I want a hot rod V8, I'll save $20K and just get the hemi (I almost did). As an extra bonus, the new Ram now wraps a truck around the Cummins that can't be beat for comfort and quality, compared to the other two.

Bottom line: get the truck that feels right to you. To each his own.

 

[rscurtis]

As a point of information, the new Ford does not have two turbos and does not require removal of the cab for engine service. Having said that, I still would not want to have to work on one or own one out of warranty.



Their last two diesel offerings were less than stellar, espescially the 6. 4, which drank fuel like a V-10. The 6. 0, despite all its pre-introduction hype for those who remember it, saw some improvement during its life, but I wouldn't want one unless I got it for free.

 

[RonD]

Thats correct, you don't have to pull the cab, as far as the 6. 0 vs the new 6. 7, yes I remember the hype, but that was a International engine, this is a 100% Ford built engine with European Blue-Tech Engineers involved, I can't recall a problem in any house built Ford engine, so I think it will be fine, but as always time will tel

 

[AHarris]

As a point of information, the new Ford does not have two turbos and does not require removal of the cab for engine service. Having said that, I still would not want to have to work on one or own one out of warranty.

Basically correct on the single turbo, but... according to Fords own website information, the 2011 Ford 6. 7 PSD has "A Garrett Single-Sequential Turbo that FUNCTIONS like a twin-turbo system and faetures a variable geometry exhaust housing, a ball bearing center support and TWO COMPRESSOR WHEELS!



I can't find anything that states cab removal isn't required to do major work on this motor, but it can't be fun to work on... I'd be afraid to attempt an air filter change on that nightmare.

 

[AMink]

Why does Dodge lag in the hauling/towing area? The engineer/beancounters know the competition is going to up that every year, but they don't just make the leap to outclass Ford and GMC. I don't necessarily need it, but if I were looking for a new truck it would be a selling point. Better to have it and not need it...

 

[Missouri Mule]

Earlier this week a produce man drove his brand new 2 week old ford diesel to the market (aprox 100 to 150 miles) when he pulled into the market all the cell lights and whistles were going off it was also popping and banging according to employee at the market. The quy had to have it put on a flatbed and towed back home.

 

[RVTRKN]

Did anyone read the fine print or read between the lines. Short GM test hill and Mega cab , come on, just looking at the pics steers you toward the Ford or GM one ton. HP ain't squat when you give me a grade like the south bound Grapevine or the steady climb on Baker grade at 120* ambient. I would worry about the GM on Baker, at 120* ambient. Why can't there be a true comparison between the big three?

 

[Powder Extreme]

The cooling fan in my Dodge runs way more than the fan in my GMC grossing 30k in the rockies. Not saying the Dodge overheats, fan kicks in all is well. But the GM rarely gets hot enough for the electric clutch to even engage. 95 degrees is hottest ambient I've seen.

 

[RVTRKN]

I guess you need to visit Diesel Place - Duramax Diesel Discussion Forums and see the many complaints of exactly that, as well as my own experience in a 05 D/A I had to drive for a while.



Mentioning that 05 3500 D/A, I went back to work for the owner of it, and he had to sideline that very truck because of poor MPG and poor performance. My Van lost a water pump (GM product with 50K miles, which he wont buy any more due the various problems he has had with them) and had to drive that very truck for a short while, what a POS, My 3500 C&C blows it away with the same HP but with the Emissions as well and even more weight.



All I can say is, "enjoy your D/A", I'm sure we will never hear about any problems, BTW enjoy your reading on TDP.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Huh... I guess I missed the part about "let's bring up problems from previous years and make fun of them" that you seem to be so stuck on.

Every manufacturer has had issues they've worked through. Dodge is certainly no exception.

The question was posed about how a new GM would run with a heavy load on a long steep hill, since I have personal first hand experience I threw it out there. If anything, it runs cooler than my Dodge. And the Dodge never had any problems with getting too hot.

Glad you enjoy my posts on TDP. Maybe you subconsciously want a new GM but are afraid to admit it.

 

[RVTRKN]

Ya, thats what I want , a Jap engine design, built by over paid union workers from GM that can't build a quality product anymore. I hope you never do overheat, because your aluminum heads will be toast.



My point to this, is its a short hill and is GM controlled, and its no surprize the GM was awarded so much, remember where they got their advertising dollars to spend, FROM MINE AND EVERYBODY ELSE'S POCKETS.

 

[Powder Extreme]

My point is I pulled more weight up a longer hill in an uncontrolled environment.

You can whine and complain all you like, but why don't you put your money where your mouth is? I'll put my stock GMC up against your stock Dodge with 20k lbs behind us. Then we can find the biggest hill around and see who gets to the top first.

Real world comparisson. Nothing for you to whine about. Fair enough?

 

[RVTRKN]

My point is I pulled more weight up a longer hill in an uncontrolled environment.



You can whine and complain all you like, but why don't you put your money where your mouth is? I'll put my stock GMC up against your stock Dodge with 20k lbs behind us. Then we can find the biggest hill around and see who gets to the top first.



Real world comparisson. Nothing for you to whine about. Fair enough?

That will be hard to do, that is not in question, its durability, while I'm running at the 500K mark pulling the 20K, you will be on your second or even third DMAX. Also, how can I know if your truck has any problems? you won't be braging here on TDR if it does. If Dodge is so bad, sell yours and troll on the TDP. :-laf