Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) ?? for Rweis & Gary & others??? VP44

[RJWEST]

Rweis/Gary: I have been reading the older posts, seems like you and Gary have done the most data collection/experimenting. I run a truck camper 90 %

of the time, (in a lot of back country,) very concerned about reliability,

Presently in the process of Installing gages, collecting spares, etc;,

My biggest concern is the dodge electronics, especially

the vp44, My thoughts are that an impending mech failure will be apparrant,

but a electrical ( driver module ) will just quit. I had a 6. 5l gm previous,

similar problem, but the IP Driver module was " remote mountable " which made the truck quite reliable, .

I asked the IP shop about replacing just the driver module on the vp44

They stated that they would not know how to get one as they send the pumps out for rebuild ( did say they could get a NEW pump for around 2600 dollars )...



Question Is the Electronic driver module something that can be had /replaced as a spare. . ? I hate breaking down a 100 miles in the woods,



?? Does Bosch have stock in emergency tow insurance, 1st time in 50 years

of driving that I bought road service policy, VP44 convinced me... .

 

[csutton7]

you can get new pump for as low as $1050 or so from Midwest Pump(or something like that) do an internet search for Bosch VP 44 and I think they will come up----to my knowledge no one has figured out how to relocate that thing----chris

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Question Is the Electronic driver module something that can be had /replaced as a spare. . ? I hate breaking down a 100 miles in the woods,

NO, the module (PSG) is not something that can be simply removed/replaced by the typical owner - there are several connected sensors and solenoids connected to that module, and their removal along with the PSG itself would involve pretty much disassembling the whole VP-44. Added to that, is the fact that the PSG must be electronically calibrated to the internal mechanical parts of the VP-44 by use of an extremely expensive Bosch test bench - and a trained tech who knows how to use it.



Sorry - my own "solution" is to carry a spare VP-44 - certainly not the best solution in the world, if you break down in the deep woods hundreds of miles from home and the shop and tools needed to swap in the spare...

 

[RJWEST]

Thanks Gary, Really ticks me off that a great engine is run by an unreliabe
Inj Pump...

 

[ACoyle]

Gary - In my tine in the computer industry, I have gone around the block so many times with spares. Since you generally research things quite well, do you periodicall test your spare VP44 in some way? I am not being dritical, but, I have put a bunch of spare whatevers on the shelf only to find out that they died in storage waiting to be used. BTW - Great video.



AC

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Thanks Gary, Really ticks me off that a great engine is run by an unreliabe

Inj Pump...

CHEER up - the latest ones out reportedly, and according to a poll of mine on this board, apparently are FAR more long-lived and reliable than older ones.

 

[FourBarR]

Gary how to explain my vp-44 early 98. 5 original has at present 444,980kms. I thought the very early ones that had the brass bushing did not survive very long. Im not complaining just wondering. I have used mmo and howes meaner inevery tank . Truck does not have any performance mods except a 4in exhaust. daily driver and tow a 3000lb. cargo trailer. what you think?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary - In my tine in the computer industry, I have gone around the block so many times with spares. Since you generally research things quite well, do you periodicall test your spare VP44 in some way? I am not being dritical, but, I have put a bunch of spare whatevers on the shelf only to find out that they died in storage waiting to be used. BTW - Great video.



AC

Only way I know of for the typical owner to test one, is your truck either runs OK - or it don't! :-laf

 

[FourBarR]

Gary forgot (old Age) I have gone through 4 lps. moved the pump back by the tank after the 3rd. one. still using the oem carter buying it through a local auto parts store.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary how to explain my vp-44 early 98. 5 original has at present 444,980kms. I thought the very early ones that had the brass bushing did not survive very long. Im not complaining just wondering. I have used mmo and howes meaner inevery tank . Truck does not have any performance mods except a 4in exhaust. daily driver and tow a 3000lb. cargo trailer. what you think?

The earlier VP-44's certainly had problems of their own - but it's my understanding that the the brass advance cylinder issue was introduced about the time MY '02 truck was built - and YUP, I got one - started tossing codes at about 42K miles and was replaced - latest ones now have a steel sleeve...



I have used 2-stroke oil and Power Service fuel additive in EVERY tank of fuel since the truck rolled off the dealer's lot- but it appears even the best efforts can't erase design errors and poor construction materials!



virtually ALL other internal parts were restored to service when I sent my failed pump in for repair - all within Bosch spec, here's hoping for another 200K miles without incident!

 

[rweis]

Carry a spare VP44,



I asked this question of SouthEast Power Systems (who also rebuild VP44's).



The answer was NO.



1st you would have to keep it totally sealed and moisture free (hermetically sealed).



2nd then the lack of the internal parts moving over a long period of time (> 1 yr) would tend to cause the parts to become "frozen" to that position.



3rd the "bouncing around" in the cab of the truck "would not be good for the mechanism as a whole".



4th there are periodic updates done that your (box spare) pump would not have. (I do not think these updates are very often anymore).



5th sheer expense of the spare, when you can call SouthEast Power / II / Scheid / ect and get a pump overnighted to you within a day.



Maybe something is different now, but I certainly thought I would carry a spare, but not sure it would work when needed.



If you are out in the boonies a lot, then I would carry a tool kit (gear puller, mirror to align the key, correct sockets, a couple of different printouts as to how to do it) to change a VP44 on the spot (on the side of the road) and order with a cell phone to some location (post office general delivery) you can go to pick it up. I would also do at least 1 practice removal replacement before I had to do it in the rain at night on the side of the road in the mountains (it ALWAYS rains and it is ALWAYS night and it is ALWAYS on the side of the road and it is ALWAYS on some mountain that you are PRAYING your rig has enough shoulder and the shoulder holds and does not go over the 1000' drop straight down) when these things happen.



Bob Weis



My last one was a 5 star dealer did not tighten the injector lines after a VP44 exchange. Towing 13k 5er, night, rain, engine loses major power, missing majorly, heavy fuel smell. Have to check the problem RIGHT NOW not enough power to even get to the top of the hill. Side of a mountain in georgia, no room to even stand on the drivers side and not risk falling down the hill. Got tools, took belt off so I would not short something out, shinneyed and laid across engine from passenger side, tightened 3 injector lines that had come completely off (I hoped I got the right lines on the right places on the VP44), no way to see, needed 3rd hand to hold a flashlight. Get yourself out without screwing something up. Key in and PRAY, PRAY again, crank it up, PRAY again and thank the LORD a couple of times, ease the rig back onto the road and hope the transmission can get the load rolling (6%). Oh, PRAY again, but do not close your eyes this time as you are back on the road.

 

[NoSeeUm]

Most likely the VP44 gives out clues that it is getting tired and would like to quit. In my case it threw a 0216 code, and I changed the it out before it decided to leave me stranded some where.



Jim

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Most likely the VP44 gives out clues that it is getting tired and would like to quit. In my case it threw a 0216 code, and I changed the it out before it decided to leave me stranded some where.



Jim

YUP = exactly what I did - engine never missed a beat - ran as good as the replacement right up to the time I pulled it off - but 216's can't be ignored - especially if you RV out in the wide open spaces like Bob and I do! :-laf :-laf

 

[DLane]

Most likely the VP44 gives out clues that it is getting tired and would like to quit. In my case it threw a 0216 code, and I changed the it out before it decided to leave me stranded some where.



Jim

I have to disagree with this. I made the mistake of bragging to a friend yesterday that I had 160,000 on the original VP44 and not a single bobble. Today I had to pay for a 120 mile tow. NO code NO warning just a dead pickup along the freeway. They will go out with NO codes

 

[NoSeeUm]

I have to disagree with this. I made the mistake of bragging to a friend yesterday that I had 160,000 on the original VP44 and not a single bobble. Today I had to pay for a 120 mile tow. NO code NO warning just a dead pickup along the freeway. They will go out with NO codes

Well... .

Most likely the VP44 gives out clues

IMO 160k is a pretty good clue with these pumps. There were probably others but you might have grown used them due to the very slow evolution and noticed no step change. Sounds like you had a very good pump to start with count yourself lucky.



Love hate relationship I guess, sorry for your troubles.



Jim

 

[csutton7]

there's no rhyme or reason to when and where these things will decide to die --some give a little warning others none at all----be prepared---I bet if you put some diesel in the spare vp and plug the holes it will last quite awhile as a spare... ... chris

 

[Boondocker]

Mine died with warning at about 65K mi. I've always been good about adding Stanadyne Performance and watching my fuel pressure gauge. I watched it be really eratic, hundreds of miles from home, up in the mountains, in the snow... I drove it home and bought an Airdog. The VP44 seemed fine, ran good, no codes. So eventually, I gave in and tapped the wire with the Comp. That was ok for a while, but a "stumble" around 1700 RPM, that wasn't present with the Comp unplugged prompted me to trade the Comp for Smarty.



So, one hot summer day, while towing my 5th wheel, I started getting the dead peddle. Since I had the Smarty, I was able to see and clear the P0216 code. I managed to nurse the truck home, trailer in tow, with what felt like 95 HP. The next day, without the trailer, I could not get the truck to misbehave, but it would set the P0216 code.



End of story - I bought a "new" VP44 from Industrial Injection ($1100) and had it installed by a dealer mechanic ($400) - no warrenty for me, tap, tap. I suppose I could get stranded tomorrow, but thankfully, that wasn't my experience.

 

[rweis]

"So, one hot summer day, while towing my 5th wheel, I started getting the dead peddle. Since I had the Smarty, I was able to see and clear the P0216 code. I managed to nurse the truck home, trailer in tow, with what felt like 95 HP. The next day, without the trailer, I could not get the truck to misbehave, but it would set the P0216 code"



We have threads going on about that as well. Short version. Empty truck Fuel temp out of the Vp44 is input fuel temp +30* (depending on VP44 rpm's 30* @ 2000 rpms). Hot day OAT = 100*, Input fuel = 120* (if you are lucky) Output fuel = 150*. Remember "cooling fuel" right! Loaded truck Fuel temp out of the Vp44 is input fuel temp +40*. Hot day OAT = 100*, Input fuel = 140* (if you are lucky) Output fuel = 180*. Remember "cooling fuel" right!



I think your VP44 got heat stressed towing, and why you could not duplicate it without the same conditions.



Add post VP44 fuel coolers, fuel input temp gauge, dump fuel back to the vent line. My towing 100* OAT input fuel is 120* output fuel is 140* AND input fuel NEVER goes over 120*(fuel coolers and I do not then turn right around and refeed the VP44 with 140* - fuel cooler temp reduction fuel). I would bet you input fuel temp went well into the 160*+ (which is the Bosch limit).



Bob Weis

 

[RJWEST]

Lot's of info,

1. Is brass " whatchamacallit " better or worse?


2, I have a very early 2002 ( has a CAD ) What level of reliability IP ,would
any guess?

3. When " New" is stated for an IP, Is That Rebuilt or new Manufacture(BOSCH) or New manufacture (?) . ?

4. Is a new Bosch Manufactured IP better than other choices?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Lot's of info,



1. Is brass " whatchamacallit " better or worse?





2, I have a very early 2002 ( has a CAD ) What level of reliability IP ,would

any guess?



3. When " New" is stated for an IP, Is That Rebuilt or new Manufacture(BOSCH) or New manufacture (?) . ?



4. Is a new Bosch Manufactured IP better than other choices?

Brass advance cylinder = BAD!





Mine is an '02, and I got the "BAD" VP-44 - and it failed at about 42K miles.



A "new" Bosch VP-44 that IS new, and not just one that's been sitting on a shelf for 4 or 5 years SHOULD have all current mods and updates - and the latest ones (last 1 or 2 years) seem to be holding up quite well. Just make SURE that any "new" or rebuilt IS new or newly rebuilt to avoid #@$%!