?? for the first gen auto owners

[MMiller]

Tonight I drove a stock, 1992, 4x4, 3. 55 with a 4sp auto with 170,000 miles on it, and approximately 30,000 on the "rebuilt" auto trans. The current owner did not know how the previous owner had it rebuilt. The only real reason I looked at it and drove it, is because its a pretty straight extended cab diesel.



On the test drive, it would not kick in to OD. I pressed the OD off switch, and the light came on, so I pushed the switch again, nothing. Then I noticed the speedo was not working. Took it back, and the owner messed with the speed sensor and got the speedo working. I took it for another short ride.



It ran well for a stock truck, and I thought the 1-2 shift, and 2-3 shifts were pretty good. The 3-4 shift was not inspiring to say the least, but it would go into od, and stay there.



Now, will the 518 ever have a nice crisp shift into OD? Do they all kinda slide into OD? I realize the lack of lockup, and a probably stock rebuilt trans will not have great shifts, but I regress. Any input would be nice. Tonight was the first time I drove a first gen with an auto.



I'm casually looking for a extended cab, first gen, 4x4 to pull my big gooseneck with, and be able to haul the family at the same time.



Oh yeah, the owner is asking $7500, its silver with the onset of the typical peeling silver paint, and needs the typical, borgeson, steering gearbox, front spring upgrades that all old first gens need.



Michael

 

[stakedd]

My 518 will go in to OD about the same feel as any outhear gear. I do have mods though. Mostly dunright valve body work. be careful of the load you plan to pull. if I pull more than 4-5 K trans will get hot. 200 230 in the pan.

 

[Greenleaf]

The OD shift feel has much to do with the position of the throttle peddle. I most generally "Grandma" my truck and OD shift feels like any other. If I floor board it then the shifts happen VERY rapidly and much harsher but at that point I'm watching where I point the truck and not not so much shift feel... ... . roll eyes..... LOL



I don't tow so I cannot help with the trans temps. I can get her hot by mearly performing several jack rabbit starts.



James pulls with his auto. Try asking him.

 

[MMiller]

Hadn't thought much about the heat yet, I just figured it was going to probably need help there too. Like a deeper pan, additional cooler and such.



When I opened up this truck the engine would hit the governor, and then the trans would shift out of first, then it would hit the governor, and the trans would shift out of second, and then it would slide into OD. I suppose the 3-OD shift needs some work to live.



Thanks for the input guys, its what I was looking for, anybody else care to comment?



Michael

 

[Greenleaf]

It sounds like some very minor/simple adjustments to the TV cable/TPS and the throttle linkages

 

[Philip]

Michael what MPH did it go into OD at WOT position?

 

[MMiller]

The last time I drove it, it kinda slide into OD about 55-60, and that was with pretty good throttle input(ie almost on the floor :-laf ).

 

[Philip]

At that throttle position/speed it shouldn't have slide in. It should have been a firm shift. Mine at that throttle would feel like the 2 to 3 shift.



Wide open I don't go into OD till 75 MPH.



If your talking about that massive goose neck of yours with the 2 Dodges on it. Better think of a different converter. Its to loose for that load. You might find out it would stall you out around 65 MPH or so. With my converter and 8k worth of trailer I am only good for 75 MPH.

 

[SGibson]

I am going to test drive essentially the same truck today, the milage is @ 130k I'll post back and let you know how it does compared to my 89 which shifts as a t-flite should.

 

["Mad Max"]

Mike,



My 93 would hit od firm every time no matter what my throttle position was - when you got to ~35 mph, it hit and hit firm - every time. I loved it, but, I had to 'tune' it a little, but the tune up was super simple - here's how.



First, as I understand, the throttle position does matter based on the TPS and that can affect od engagement. On mine, under the TPS, on the shaft, is a little nut that can tighten up under the TPS. I'd have to go look at it again to be sure exactly which nut it is, but it is a threaded nut on the throttle shaft under the TPS. Can't see it unless you're looking up at it. The guys at PDR told me to tighten that nut up snug - not so much super tight, but pretty snug. I think that nut alters the od engagement voltage based on the TPS position, but when it's tight it negates the TPS position and overrides the voltage to always be more than enough to engage the od, thus makes the od hit every time you reach the speed marker, in my case ~34-35 mph.



Also, replace the auto gearshift lever with the second gen version that has the od engage button on the tip - you will totally love having the button at your fingertip verses hunting for it on the dash face.



Lastly - converter. You will need a good (not necessarily super expensive) but good aftermarket converter. I have always had good results with TCI's converters in my gasser life so I opted for the TCI cummins unit for my 93. Night and day difference, and my transmission never, ever, went over 195* execpt for the BIG MOVE from California to Colorado when I towed 18,000 lbs gross weight out here (truck, trailer, cargo). transmission stayed at ~ 195* the whole trip save for the crade coming North out of New Mexico into Colorado when it went to 235*. Soon as I was on top it all came back down. Loved that truck - can't wait to start the rebuild. It got in a fight with a Ford Ranger a year ago...



So, tighten the nut, do a converter swap, swap the lever, drive on. You'll love it.



- M2

 

[MMiller]

Yeah Philip, thats the trailer I need to pull, and need to haul a family of four at the same time. Can't get the wife to let me build a first gen crew, but she said I can look at exteneded cab models.



I figured that any auto truck I ever own, will need a good convertor, I was more wondering if there are other problems going on here, if the one I drove was 'normal'. I'm a 5 gear guy, and I've only really towed with one truck, my 93, so I needed some input.



*If* I ever ended up with a auto transmission tow vehicle, I'd probably want at least a tight convertor, valve body, deep pan, larger cooler, and maybe even an upgrade to a lockup convertor trans.



Thanks Sam for the input.



Michael

 

[1stgen4evr]

- - - - - The guys at PDR told me to tighten that nut up snug - not so much super tight, but pretty snug. I think that nut alters the od engagement voltage based on the TPS position, but when it's tight it negates the TPS position and overrides the voltage to always be more than enough to engage the od, thus makes the od hit every time you reach the speed marker, in my case ~34-35 mph. - - - - - - - -



This is not exactly gospel on the nut in question. While I totally despise the TPS and every shred of engineering (or lack of) associated with it, I of necessity, learned how to fine tune the thing. Tightening it would be better served by putting some locktite (not the permanent type) on the threads. It is a nylock nut and it will eventually slip and the TPS is then out of adjustment and can in fact slip both ways for total pull your hair out radical function. THEN, if the rest of the crummy system is working, the shift will occur at a predictable point (which you can set with the nut).



My low miles 93 has a very good shift in all ratios. I can't say whether it is any different internally from the late 92 I own but I can say that the 92 has NEVER been satisfactory and the 93 is. One new TPS in 130k miles on the 93. Three on the 92 and it still isn't right.



The converter on the 92 is a real heat producer. It is quick to heat up in the mountains and slow to cool down since there is no extra cooler. I drove the 93 to Anchorage in April four years ago and believe me there are a few mountains along the way. The roads is broken and heaved so that you can't run a hundred down the slopes to help pull over the top. So from the bottom up, you are throttle down all the way. I was pulling about 19k total rig weight. It does not have a cooler. It is possible that the previous owner did something to the converter but the second owner (who I bought it from) didn't know of it. There was some heating but there was also from the Yukon Territory on, plenty of snow and cool air.



I mentioned that I am putting some miles on a 97 which has lockup. That feature is worth the effort and at the point that I do something about the 92, I will either do a conversion to manual or go all the way with a 'built' 518 with lockup. My idea of the perfect OD switch would be something on the shift lever similar to the wiper where you could rotate the switch and get what you wanted in 1,2,3,OD, or lock up. On the other hand, it is possible that I will salvage out the 92.



And Michael, Do the crew, do the crew, do the crew, do the crew. OH and did I mention that you really ought to do the crew.



James

 

["Mad Max"]

Thanks for the clarification James - Honestly I didn't really know how it fixed the problem, just that it actually worked Makes good sence on the locktite. No kidding, after that little adjustment my transmission felt and functioned fabulously. Before it wouldn't engage the od unless you lifted almost completely off the throttle, then it'd engage, then press the pedal, then it'd disengage, then I say (#!@#$*^#%)!!... (^&%$@#T$^)!!!... (^%@#!#$@$%. . :-{} . %$@#@!#@&$)!!! between me and the truck a lot.....

Ja-eeeze that drove me crazy.



When I do my truck it will have a 2nd gen 47RH hybrid transmission with both full lock up and exhaust brake. Already have the parts, just waiting for space to open up in the shop as I'll need ALL of the space to do what I'm planning.



- M2

 

[1stgen4evr]

(#!@#$*^#%)!!... (^&%$@#T$^)!!!... (^%@#!#$@$%. . . %$@#@!#@&$)!!! between me and the truck



Is your truck solid black. We may be talking about the same truck!!!!! To say the least, the 92 black bird definitely knows that language.



Are you doing the transmission build yourself? Michael told me of a shop in Iowa that is known for the aftermarket Cummins-ready 'BUILT' transmission. I haven't talked with them but I have talked with a couple of the others and the prices scare me. Do you have a build list of things to make the 47rh into the super transmission. I don't have any HP mods but I am very partial to robust systems on everything I use. I have looked at some internet sites and the list of possible items stymies me.



James

 

[sdstriper]

Interesting topic for me, I've been looking into OD trans myself. I'll keep it short and add that transmission shop is Goerend Brothers. I talked to them and plan on a trip over there in the next couple months.



http://www.gbtransmissions.com/

 

[MMiller]

Hmmm, very interesting, basically what you guys are saying, is if I buy a first gen with a stock auto, pulling 28,000# with any success is out of the question. In success I guess I mean pulling Iowa hills, at 70 mph, cruise on in OD? My old 93/getrag will do it.



As long as the OD unit has not been ruined already, then satisfactory shifts can be had with tweaking the TPS?



Thanks for the input again guys.



Michael

 

[Philip]

Michael if I was thinking about draging that much weight. I would be looking for a beefed up auto trans with a lockup converter. Our slipper converters would require a lot of cooling to keep the trans alive.

 

[bgilbert]

Take that auto and stick it:-laf!!

 

[MMiller]

Take that auto and stick it:-laf!!

Thats what I've been thinking for years, the wife likes to row gears, and is easy on clutches, I guess we'll keep looking. Its real hard to justify a $7500 truck, and then add maybe $3-4000 for a good transmission, on top of the other work the truck needs, tires, springs, steering, etc... .....



Now I have been educated on the 518's, I was really wondering what a good one shifts like. I guess in october I'm going to have to ride in one Black dually with new flatbed, and one Silver Bullet.



Again, thanks for the information, and yes James, I'm still hoping for a Crew Cab project. The durango is in the garage again, with more brake problems. I told my wife that I am really beginning to hate the durango, and she is too. Maybe after a trip to IRP, and spying some nice crews, she'll let me run.



Michael

 

["Mad Max"]

Mike, with that kind of weight I'd actually recommend picking up a 5-speed truck and upgrading it to a NV4500. That's some significant weight.



James, a couple hours North of me up in Greeley, CO is where PDT is, and the guy there goes by Laser Bob - he is a full-on DTT distributor, and he and I have been talking about my transmission for over 2 years. Mine will be the full-monte - top draw everything - lots of parts made from unobtainium, modified overdrive unit, super strong, lock-up converter, and basically unbreakable. It'll hold the 1200+ lb/ft of torque that the engine is going to have (twin turbo'd stage II PDR towing engine). So, there will be serious $ in the engine and trans, but this truck will be a full restification and will be brandy new and fully restored - basically a new truck, and I'm planning to do a personal loan for around ~ 30k for it, and condsider is a 'new car loan'. But, for 30K I can build a seriously strong rig.

- M2