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Ford Superduty V10

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Still searching for a new rescue squad for the volunteer fire department. Were gonna be hauling 3000 lbs max of rescue tools. We also decided to buy a new truck after an exhausting search for something used that would meet our needs. Were ready to order.



The only choice (GVWR, size) for the money is the Ford F450 or F550. Any opinions on the V10 Triton? Thats our choice of engines. The diesel is out of the question because of cost increase and the reliability issues with the 6. 0. I know all the benefits of the diesel engine... but I also know how we use our truck and our current gas squad has done fine for 22 years.



I know of several folks who haul heavy and pull hard with the V10 in other SuperDutys. Any issues besides the 99's blowing plugs out of the heads?
 
At my previous employer we had a 2001 Ford E-350 van with that V-10. I drove it about 10k miles, and it was a really good engine. We had a lot of weight on that truck, but it would still have plenty of passing power on the highway and acceleration in town. Of course, the gas mileage was dismal at about 9-mpg. When I left there, the truck had about 70k miles on it without any engine problems.



- Mike
 
Last summer we bought a 2004 Fleetwood Flare Class A motor-home, it's 34 ft with 2 slides. We only have about 3000 miles on it but I'm surprised at the passing power. It is getting about 8. 5 MPG. This is built on the 550 chassis.
 
I want the F550 for potential future load capacity... but with a 2500 lb body and 3000 lbs of equipment I'm scared of underloading it to produce a completely rough ride. On the other hand a F450 would be more suited but the F550 is only $1000 more for the extra capacity... 15000 GVWR versus 17500GVWR
 
Have you gone through Ford fleet sales to see what kind of a deal you can get? They offer great deals to businesses and municipalities. At my old job we had a 2000 F-350 with a V-10 and had zero problems with the motor, on the other hand it had 3 transmissions in it before 9,000 miles. The truck had a 9 foot Fisher plow on it and was driven by everybody and their brother. I am a firm believer that a transmission needs to be broke in before it gets abused and that was the cause of its demise. Mileage isn't good but it's a rescue vehicle so it really doesn't matter that much.
 
If we put over 5000 miles per year on it I'd be amazed. We treat our trucks with care and nobody abuses them in any way. They are too expensive for us to do that.



Were currently in the process of obtaining a Ford Fleet ID in order to obtain the govt pricing. All we needed to do was prove we owned three vehicles and that we were a government entity.
 
You'd need the F-650 or F-750 to get the Cummins. As much as I'd like to say to get a F-650 and a 5. 9 Cummins,, the combo will be a bit lethargic, as the Cummins isn't available with too many ponies in that Chassis,, although, an Allison, and 10 speeds Eatons are available :cool:



The 450/550 is just a "big" F-250/350. It has the same interior, engine compartment, motor, and transmission as the 250/350's.



Merrick
 
Go ahead nomex suit is on.

For most rescue squad vehicles a gas engine is much better than a diesel for a number of reasons.

  • Low mileage (not fuel, vehicle)
  • No power demand as in a engine (pumper) truck.
  • Faster warm up and more available heat for compartment.
  • Most driver's do not know diesel.
 
I'd love to have the Dodge Cummins for a rescue... but DC is really missing the boat with their 04's by not being too receptive to aftermarket bodies. In fact the put it in writing that they do not want their vehicles used as "ambulance" type vehicles.



We have ran a F-350 351W with total success for 22 years. But now everyone is seeing alot of diesels (since Ford really pushes the diesels on the fire service due to their past E-series carb equipped ambulance fires) and the general assumption these days is "diesel is the default and consider nothing else for no reason".



But I have reviewed our needs and have witnessed other V10 applications in F-Series that are much more tough on the truck. Our power utility uses some V10 F550's for bucket and tow vehicles and they run from daylight till dark hauling large loads and generally get flogged hard.



In all honesty... our department and many others (but not all) are in fact very easy on the trucks. Yes the start and go... but they are kept in climate controlled buildings, get maintained great, washed constantly and see little true work unlike commercial vehicle applications. Its an easy life being a light rescue truck yet some act like you have to buy the most powerful, heavy duty truck money can buy or it will fall apart.



Thus our department, with some reluctance, has sided with me that a V10 is the cost effective, yet completely responsible way to go. Warms up quick, 3 times the power or our current truck, hauling the same payload, good acceleration and will most likely provide the same 100,000 mile service life that our existing gasser did. At least I hope a 2004 V10 Triton can last as long as an 82 351W small block. I know it can.



The facts are as follows for us and our rescue truck:



Runs amount to around 300 per year in our district. 90% are basic medical assists to the county ambulance as we are a BLS non transport agency. Our response area is only around 5 square miles of city with some rural county coverage and about 5 miles of 4 lane highway. So getting out on the road and stretching the trucks legs doesn't happen here. We can't just go for long drives for obvious reasons.



Average run times from ignition on till the master switch is turned off is around 20-25 minutes. Miles accumulated in a year could stretch to 5000 but only if we attend every parade and guys take the truck for a drive just for the heck of it. 3000 is more like the real figure.



Around 10 times per year we'll see auto accidents where the truck is expected to remain on scene for an hour. At good working fires (maybe 5 per year or so) we'll park it in a convenient location and shut it off. All its there for is standby medical equipment and the air pack refill cascade system. We figure there is no need to let any unused vehicle idle for hours on end whether diesel or gas. If it was sub zero we might reconsider this.



Plus with just 2 mobile radios (VHF and 800) and all super low draw LED warning lights... simply installing a second battery should prove to be totally sufficient for the factory alt. Otherwise we can just upgrade to a Niehoff alternator 200 amp for $750. Other than electrical equipment its no different than a normal truck with a service body.



Fortunately... Ford QVM department in Detroit has agreed with me on this and has OK'd the V10 as long as we dont install a high idle device for when its stationary. We dont need one so were all set for the gasser. I think were gonna get the F450 as the F550 would be way to underloaded and might ride like a log wagon.



Thanks for the support on the V10. At least thats one less turbo I dont have to worry about someone shutting down hot and one less diesel fuel filter I'll have to change :)
 
I think you'll find a gasser more livable (you can talk to each other within 10' of the truck), and easier on driveline parts.



As much as I love diesels, sometimes a big torquey diesel is not what is best.



I think a High revving diesel might be a good alternative for an ambulance. A short stroke, and minimal bottom end would make for a quiet diesel (short stroke, low compression), it would get good MPG, and wouldn't try to rip the drivetrain out from itself.



Good luck.



Merrick



BTW,,

Why no high idle device? underhood temps get too high?
 
Ford V-10 seems to be a good engine. I worked at a Ford dealer for almost 2 years, seemed to be a pretty trouble-free engine. Working there is what finally turned me off to Ford diesels, though. Saw waaaay too many sick ones. The V-10's that I have driven were real snappy, sounded a little strange, but that's about the only complaint besides lack of economy. If GVWR were not the issue at hand here, and I was looking for a large gasser engine, I'd personally be looking at the Chevy 8. 1 liter. Does that come in any medium duty trucks like a Kodiak or Top Kick?
 
Yes the 8. 1L is available in the one ton 3500 (12,000 lbs GVWR) and the C4500/5500 Kodiaks/Topkicks. Only problem is the 3500 is too small and the C4500 (16,000 lbs) is much more expensive than the F450/550. So were outta luck with GM.



I personally dont think idling a gasser nowadays causes super high underhood temps like in the past. Fords rash of fires in high idling 460's (in compact engine compartments... E250/350's) in ambulances of the past put a bad taste in their mouth. Most fires occured at hospitals when the trucks were left idling while EMT's were inside for long periods. After years of no trouble with diesels I can understand their unwillingness to offer gassers. But F series have more engine compartment and todays engines are not the big blocks of yesterday. Electronic fuel injection keeps engines in tune much better. FUNNY thing is though Ford considers it fine to high idle gassers in other applications such as bucket trucks that require PTO drives.



Even up to a couple years ago... it was not unusual for Fire Depts to use GM 3500HD's with 454's for rescues. Just not that common.



I want quiet too. Currently... we can go to a residential home for a night time medical call and nobody knows were there. When the PSD ambulance pulls up everybodys porch lights come on and the next door neighbors start coming over asking questions.
 
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The V-10 that I referenced in my earlier post was in an armored truck that ran nonstop 8-10 hours per day, with lots of idling time. The engine temp stayed very constant in the summer heat, and we never had any problems with overheating.



I always treated that truck with respect and didn't abuse it, but the other drivers flogged it mercilessly. But as I said earlier, not one problem with the engine after 70k hard-driven miles. The rest of the truck (brakes, suspension, rear axle, electrical) didn't hold up to the abuse nearly as well.



- Mike
 
Originally posted by Ncostello

I want the F550 for potential future load capacity... but with a 2500 lb body and 3000 lbs of equipment I'm scared of underloading it to produce a completely rough ride. On the other hand a F450 would be more suited but the F550 is only $1000 more for the extra capacity... 15000 GVWR versus 17500GVWR



Personally I don't think the ride would be that big of a difference between the 450 and 550. Also, your not running empty, you have 5,500 pounds over the rear axle according to your figure's. Finally, I could be wrong but my understanding is the 450 has a Dana 80 axle while the 550 has the Dana 135 axle. Personally, I would go with the bigger axle.
 
Thats what the Ford dealership said about the axle. They said it didn't matter to them... but tried to convince me to get the big axle because it was much stronger. I'm gonna go drive an F550 flatbed they have. If it rides OK with just the flatbed... I'll go ahead and spec the 550. I'll have to take it down some bumpy roads.



Our current F350 sits in at just a tad over 9000 lbs depending who's driving. Its hard to believe were going to get a truck that could haul our entire F-350 as it sits and still have plenty of spare GVWR. Thats even if we opt for the 17500 and do not get the 19000 lb option.



If only Dodge made a 4500 series with 19. 5" wheels and the Cummins option... it would be too easy :(
 
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