Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Formula 1 EDM injector questions

[Hemiless]

I'm to the point of bombing my truck and I've decided to go the injector route.

My question is can I run mach 3's without running a bigger turbo or tapping the pump wire? Or would I be better off going with mach 2's? I still have the stock clutch so I don't want to tap the pump wire yet. I'm also planning at the same time to pick up an ez/comp box and install it w/the injectors but again I don't want to touch the pump wire yet.



Are there any towing issues with running mach 2's or 3's with a box? I don't want to make the truck fast but useless for towing and driving around town if you catch my meaning.



Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated also if anyone has any used mach 3's and a comp box for a 02 let me know.



And yes I have gauges.

 

[Bob Wagner]

Nathan, If you are considering the Catcher upgrade, skip the comp until you try the ecm reflash.



The Mach 2 line of injectors is the most popular towing injector around, great power, little smoke and great torque.



If you go with that combo to start you may have to address the clutch, it all depends on your driving habits.



I run the catcher with mach 2. 4's and its an awesome set up. And I tow a 30' 10K+ 5er.



enjoy

 

[tcourse]

I agree with Bob.

I run 2. 2's with the catcher and only turn on the box to play. I had hot Mach 3's and changed them out for better daily drivability.



TC

 

[isb360]

I'm another happy Mach 2 customer. Much improved power, negligible smoke or driveability concerns. I have a 5-speed truck and my only "complaint" was a very very touchy throttle pedal in the beginning until the ECM "relearned" proper positioning with the bigger injectors. The truck also undershot idle rpm at first when backing off the throttle, but quickly settled into the 800-850 usual range.



I do tow an 8000lb horse trailer on occasion and with the TST box "off", my towability has increased dramatically and I have no trouble keeping the EGT's in check.



My goal was to have injectors (plus the TST PM3 box) that were usable with the stock turbo, providing I take it easy on the go pedal, but that were also big enough to support a mild hybrid turbo upgrade in the future, should I choose to do so.



I have the Mach 2's in and I keep the TST box set on Level 3. Under hard acceleration in 4th and 5th gears, I can get the clutch to start slipping a bit, so I don't dare turn it up any more. When the inevitable clutch swap takes place, I am absolutely itching to crank up the box a bit higher!



Tim

 

[Luke Warmwater]

"I have a 5-speed truck and my only "complaint" was a very very touchy throttle pedal in the beginning until the ECM "relearned" proper positioning with the bigger injectors. "



Someone please explain to me in technical terms how you believe an computer "learns"? As a software engineer who even played around with AI in college I find it questionable that the ECM "learns" anything. It reacts yes but learns? Maybe I am interpretting what is meant the wrong way...

 

[isb360]

Perhaps "learns" is a misnomer. From what I understand, idle rpm on the ISB engines is set in the ECM and is monitored by reading various sensor inputs, notably crank position. Larger injectors will dump more fuel in at any given input from the VP44 than the stock injectors. It stands to reason that feedback given to the ECM from the crank sensor would give a "high rpm" condition until the VP44/ECM adjusted accordingly. I'm not sure if injector pulse duration (PWM) is altered or if it is something in the VP44.



Also, in the same fashion a carburetor has an idle circuit and a main metering circuit, I believe the ECM has an idle logic and an off-idle logic responding differently to sensor inputs, including TPS/APPS. I found that when tipping into the throttle off idle, it was very touchy at the beginning, as if for a given throttle position commanded by my foot, the "old" (from original injectors) fuel pulse duration was provided, resulting in lots of extra fuel and a jump in the truck. Maybe it's my foot that's doing the learning, but it seems better now.



All I can say from experience is the apparently underdamped condition I saw when backing off the throttle disappeared in about a week.



Tim

 

[Luke Warmwater]

"Maybe it's my foot that's doing the learning" :-laf

 

[Big P]

I have Mach 3's in my truck, and no, you can't run them without a turbo upgrade even without a box if you want to stay on the throttle.

 

[Hemiless]

Thanks for all the great replys.

I think I will go the ecm flash and injector route. I was unaware that F1 edms had different levels of mach 2's as it only showed one level on the sourceautomotive web page? I guess I will need to do a little checking?



Bob could you PM me with what exactly marco needs for his flash. I've read the post a couple times and I'm a little confused.

 

[darkhorse]

Just a word of caution with the stock clutch. I'm running those "wimpy" 1. 5's from Don M. Those & the CaTCHER mean WOT is out of the question.

 

[BLACKRAM]

Do yourself a favor and listen to Bob Wagner. I drove his truck last week and it has PLENTY of power, yet maintains driveability. You need to approach the truck as a SYSTEM rather than a mix-mash of parts.



I am adding the Marco ECM to my list of equipment as soon as the shipment arrives.

 

[tajensen]

Maybe the best thing you can do is call Rip Rook (he's a contact for F1 injectors) and give him a description of your current and near future upgrades. I did just that, and based on the information given and the altitude I was at, I was recommended to get 2. 3's. The nice thing about 2+ sizing is that you are only charged for a Mach 2... at least that's the way it was when I placed my order. By the way, the throttle response and smoke control combination is outstanding with these EDMs.



-Tim

 

[hammersley]

Smoke - I can personally eliminate the "West Nile Skeeter" Problem in a County

See my setup - but on 1v1 - until the Turbo spools up - I get a fair amount of smoke. With Comp off - still smoke - not a huge amount - but much more than stock. With Comp on 3 - Big Smoke... ..... and very fast EGT's. 4 & 5 are almost unuseable... ..... due to very fast EGT's if you're into it.....

 

[RCone]

Hey Neighbor (Hammersly). Your sig doesn't show if you have 4" exhaust and what kind of air box you are running. If you are not running a Scotty II you might seriously consider it. You and I are set up almost exactly the same and yes, on 4 & 5 it can get hot but you just have to get out of it at the end of the 1320'.



Roger

 

[hammersley]

I guess my abreviations in my sig are confusing

BUT I have a full 4" Stainless Magniflow (from RIP) and a Big AFE Mega-canon Air Cleaner.....

 

[Silver_Ram]

Will injector upgrades add alot more temp to the EGT? I was considering a 40 - 60 HP injector, but I don't want need more EGT. The majority of my towing is mountain terrain & I have to back out of it now to climb a couple of them.

 

[darkhorse]

I believe that injectors are easier on EGT than wire tapping fuling boxes.

 

[hammersley]

Egt???

Silver Ram - I don't see guages on your sig - how do you know you have an issue with EGT's????

 

[RThompson]

I had Rip Rook install the Mach 1 injectors. Everthing else is stock. Nice increase in power, some smoke, and the egt gets up there a little quicker.

The sweet part of this, is the increase in fuel mileage. Estimating that it will come in with about 10% to 15% increase when towing. Will post when I am able to go on a long tow this fall. I run all fuel from transfer tank thru primary filters and then into stock tank making it kinda hard to check mileage. Total all up weight right at 18000 lbs. Anyone else running just Mach 1's injectors, what are you experiencing in mileage?

 

[Silver_Ram]

I have Autometer Sport Comp Boost & Pyrometer gauges. Fuel pressure coming soon.