Fram oil filters

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Fram filters do filter contaminants better than your average filter,but it can cost you an engine.

I used to work for a GM dealership in my home town and 80% of all vehicles brought in for engine replacement under warranty had a Fram oil filter on it. It seems that customers would throw one of these babies on after the first 1000 miles and the Fram would collect all of the loose particles associated with new engine "Break in" and restrict the oil flow severely. Just because you have good oil pressure doesn't mean that you have good flow to the critical parts of your engine. Just my 2 cents.

 

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Everyone,
I like the fleetguard idea but I just bought a K&N filter at my local autozone store, there was a fram listing and the K&N listing, the k&N was $10 is this the normal? is the fleetguard around $10 also? I bought the K&N for the name brand obviously and I hope that they are good. Look good anyway...
thanks in advance for any other info you guys might have
Eric

 

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quote:

"I used to work for a GM dealership in my home town and 80% of all vehicles brought in for engine replacement under warranty had a Fram oil filter on it. "

SORRY, but that doesn't mean a damn thing!

Fact IS, Fram is one of the most common and popular filters in use today - so it's undoubtedly ALSO true that 80% of all engines operating NORMALLY also are using Fram oil filters! Statistical references can be twisted, and made to "prove" just about any point you want - such as, most likely, over 90% of those failed engines ALSO had antifreeze in their coolent - so perhaps THAT was the reason for engine failures?

Over in a Camaro SS group I participate in, a similar link was being suggested between Mobil 1 synthetic oil and a high frequency of oil pump failures in LS1 alloy engines - until a few level headed owners pointed out that the VAST majority of LS1 owners (like ME!) used Mobil 1, so NATURALLY, the higest percentage of oil pump failures WOULD be among those using that brand of oil - but the pump failures had LONG SINCE been proven to be defective castings in the pump's pressure relief valve - all recognized and repaired under warranty by GM...

Gotta watch those unwarranted assumptions...

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Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

 

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Gary - KJ6Q

Don't take this personally Gary but when I read your posts, I get the idea you want everything in black and white. I disagree.

When I read about problems someone has had with a certain product, it makes me more alert to potential problems. The recent posts on K&N filters comes to mind. I checked mine, looks good, kept it. I have read no response from K&N otherwise just hearsay from members. Calculated risk on my part based on lower EGT's while pulling.

Did you ever have a gut feeling about something but could not prove it? I work in the semiconductor industry. One time we had wafers coming out of a heat treat furnace that did not appear normal to me based on past experiance. While I voiced my opinion, the wisened senior engineers only looked down at me. When bad product started showing up at testing later on and was traced back to the heat treat operation, I was vindicated. I did not go off half cocked saying I told you so! You see, the amount of junk ran well over one million, yes 1,000,000 dollars.

Be that as it may, with what these trucks cost, why scrimp on something like filters?

 

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"Don't take this personally Gary but when I read your posts, I get the idea you want everything in black and white. I disagree. "

NO problem - I tend to get involved in the more controversial subjects - so my personal opinions and viewpoints sometimes clash with someone elses - just the way it goes. No problems as long as there's no yelling or name-calling! #ad


"Be that as it may, with what these trucks cost, why scrimp on something like filters?"

My most recent post referred to the guys claim that the majority of failed engines he sees at his dealership use Fram filters - MY point was, that since Fram is probably the MAJOR supplier of oil filters in common use, it's entirely NORMAL that they would be the ones most seen, on just about ANY automobile engine, broken or otherwise - it's just common sense!

BY the same token, odds are that the same holds true for our Dodge/Cummins setups - and would be pretty surprised if the Fleetguard filter is not one of the LESS used filters - with a corresponding lower number of likely "failures".

It's a "percentage" game - 1% failures out of 1000 Fram filters = 10, but that same 1% out of 100 Fleetguard filters is only *1* - which may SEEM far less, but is statistically the SAME!

And just because the filter we select may COST more, is NO sign it PERFORMS better! WITHOUT any "proof", we are left with ONLY appearance and price to base our choice upon. UNLESS we are willing to base our final selection merely upon the recommendation of a relative, friend or acquaintance who says he has used them for years with no problems - not a very scientific way to choose, but the way many seem to do it.

Without the benefit of actual numerical PROOF of PERCENTAGE of failures, and proven efficiencncy in actual operation, you have ONLY a "gut feeling" to go on - and I guess that's OK as long as it delivers satisfactory results, and makes the user FEEL good... At least until something PROVEN better comes along...

But I *still* say there's LOTS more to a meaningful, reliable oil filter "study" than merely cutting them apart and inspecting them visually... Perhaps a similar study that includes actual USE of the filters, and an accompanying oil analysis after a measured period of operation?


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Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...


[This message has been edited by Gary - KJ6Q (edited 08-25-2000). ]

 

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Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q:


I HAVE TO AGREE WITH Gary-KJ6Q

just my $. 02

 

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The first time I read your posts (Gary). I also raised my right brow. Upon reading them a second time... . I realized you are absolutely right. From a statistical standpoint. . FRAM WILL have the largest amount of failures. Reasons will vary from improper use to... what ever. BUT the biggest reason is that Allied (Fram's mother company) is either the largest or one of the largest producers of oil filters. Heck, they might have more failures than other outright produce!

Taking things a step further... My father always used to say. "One man's junk is another mans treasure".

This might be the case here in that FRAM produces an "acceptable" filter for our trucks. . for the average guy who doesn't know Jack about oil or care for that matter. All he knows is that his manual tells him to change oil every xxxx miles

Me personnaly, I don't care for them, Yet I've used plenty of them in the past. I think like most things... you have an econo version, up to the premium line.

What seems to be the biggest issue is knowing if you are actually getting a premium product for the premium price.

I'm sure somewhere, someone has tested these things... I just don't know who.

Until then, I'm really happy with AMSOIL's products and will continue to use them.
I'm not saying its the best... it's the best of what I've tested.

Do I have proof of my last statement?? Well... not exactly, but I do notice that the oil remains a nice golden color longer than it ever did using other brands of filters. . Maybe thats a bad indication to use as judgement... but its what I believe to be true. I would love nothing more than for someone to offer truths rather than opinions.

Lord only knows I have enough of my own. . I don't need anyone else's. #ad


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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC. Everything but leather. PIAA driving lights, AMSOIL oil filter relocation system,Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs,Rhino Liner,K&N air filter. Somehow lost my silencer Ring.

 

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Gary,

Okay, I have reread this post and I can see your point. Just as when one of us goes off the deepend and unfairly lashes out at a supplier, I think we need to put our complaints in their proper context. Rather than say a product is junk, just state what problems you had.

I recall Consumers Reports doing oil and filter analysis on New York taxicabs. I would not consider that the difinitive report for out application. Statistically, we need to realize that the difinitive study may never be available for us.

I put a fair number of miles on my truck and I don't baby it. I don't beat it either. Having driven over the road, I treat my Dodge Cummins with the same respect. That means running the same high end filters. That is where we need to go for hearsay info. How about it hotshots, what are your takes on this.

As far as Fram filters, I have used them extensively on other vehicles. Never had a problem either. I had a diesel Toyota pickup and used the regular Napa filters. Had well over a 100,000 on when I sold that slug. Next owner had it at least five more years.

 

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If the more expensive filters are better, then I just bought the best fuel filter there ever was. I paid $47. 00 for a fuel filter from Autoway Dodge today in Clearwater Florida. They used to be $18. 00. Then $38. 00. My next one will be from Geno's or Cummins. I feel violated. I may need therapy.

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98 2500 CC 4X2 12v 5spd 4. 10
97 Dodge Stratus 150HP
92 Harley Fatboy, Dynojet fuel management, Supertrapp 2-1

 

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"I feel violated. I may need therapy. "


HEH HEH HEH - I know the feeling WELL - been there, done that, WAY too many times! #ad




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Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

 

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compare comparable wix and fleetguard fuel filters for the 5. 9, if you look closely you will be amazed, I sell them both, i just wonder who really makes them wix or fleetguard because the fuel filters are the same, even on the fs1265's stratapore and all. No filter manufacturer will put out a filter that doesn't meet or exceed spec's. The labels on the filters are just eye candy. So do what i do sell them all to keep everyone very happy

 

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I used a Wix on my first oil change and since have been using Purilator. I used to work at Country General and they had a display of the Fram, Purilator, and Pure-One filters and the filtering microns and have been impressed with Purilator/Pure-One filters since.

Just my 2 cents

Mac

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95 Ram 2500 Auto Std Cab, Cat & Muffler Fell off, 125,000 miles.
Bombed-to-be!

 

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heres a little tidbit i discovered over the weekend , last month i spun a bearing in the 383 in my 69 superbee , didn't run it to long , didn't make the usual sound a spun bearing would make , i know this isn't my first #ad
anyway i cut open the fram i had on it , motor was toast anyways 140k miles , found lots of metal in the filter , it ATTEMPTED to do its job ...

i was reusing the cam and lifters , only 600 miles on them and just before i installed the lifters i took one apart for grins and giggles and was shocked at what i found , small metal particles inside in the oil #ad
... i had to disassemble and FLUSH out all the lifters ... frams still bite ...

 

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Hey members! I read this post a few days ago and did not think about it much as I have always had good luck with Fram filters. There is one on my Cummins right now. I had been on vacation last week and when I got back to my service writers job at the good old DC dealership low and behold I had a repair order from the week before that had not been finished while I was gone. It involved replacing the short engine in a 99 model with 99,000 miles. Engine had lots of blow by. The technician had written on the back of the repair order that he had performed some diagnostic checks and had contacted the STAR center for advice. They asked him if the engine had a Fram filter on it and to remove the oil pan and check the cooling nozzles. The one for cylinder #1 was junk. They told him it was caused by the Fram filter coming apart. Needless to say it did not void his warranty but the Fram filter on MY Cummins is coming off ASAP!

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2000 3500 5spd, 4:10 posi, std cab, 4x2, Bright White, Agate, all options except leather and sport package. Dawson 24ft hauling a 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger drag car; 360cid auto; runs 10:00 in 1/4 mile. I wish my truck ran this quick!

[This message has been edited by mopars1 (edited 08-30-2000). ]

 

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FRAM has been proven in many independent tests to be a VERY POOR filter at anything less than 25 micron particle size.
They are about as good as a porch screen for your oil!!!!! #ad


If you just stuck with FLEETGAURD you would never have to worry about oil filter quality or availability, they arte sold at about every truck dealer or service shop in the nation. #ad


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'97 FL60,5. 9 cummins,marine pistons and other goodies,44psi of pure pleasure!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<<>>Charles Pyatt<<>
*WARNING this post may offend some ford-diesel.com members*

 

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Hello Mopars1.

Very interesting information for a loyal Fram user like myself. You have me concerned as I also currently have Fram oil and fuel filters on my DC. Did DC publish anything about the use of a Fram filter? Thank you

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'93, W250, 4X4, Autometer boost and EGT gauges (in the dash)

 

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Jet Tech, I have not seen anything published about this from DC as of yet. Like on some of the other posts I have read in the past I don't think DC can tell you what filter to run but they can give suggestions. I have been also a loyal Fram user for oil and air filters on all my vehicles for a long time. I just don't have the cash set aside for when the Cummins is out of warranty. I will run out in time long before mileage. I just would like to be safe than sorry.

 

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Ok, so here's an idea... Even after this post, there are going to be diehard Fram users and those that will only use Fleetguard. Let's find some volunteers who have (newer or similar) trucks with similar mileage and driving conditions and do an oil analysis every specified interval (say 14K miles). Then after a a given time (two years), we can revisit and have some more discussions based on oil analysis.

Naturally, this won't be a statistically significant sample (we'd need a dozen of each truck), but it'd be interesting!

 

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Cummins Northwest sells Fleetgard and Cummins Synthetic Blend oil. It is well recommended. It is convenient, I get a small discount. I like doing business with Cummins. In other words "I'm satisfied" I think that's what we all want as the bottom line. Dave
Now I read in another thread there is no more Premium Blue available @ Cummins Just think I was satisfied for almost 10 minutes that time. #$%^&*
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96 2500 4x4 5sp 3. 5 gears TST#6 16 cm2 Geno's Combo Gage Pac Brake Aux tank 15K 5er hitch
HF/VHF/UHF mobile KG7HD

[This message has been edited by Alaskdave (edited 08-29-2000). ]