Frame repair

[TPringle]

Does anyone know the proper technique to weld/section a frame together to keep it from cracking or breaking in the future? As in, removing a section of damaged frame to replace it with a section of good frame. Thanks for the help!

 

[KOG]

As far as I know the 1st gen frames aren't particularly tempered or annealed. Most frames of that era are 1020 mild steel which drills, cuts, welds just fine. I've done all of those things on mine with no problems so far.

If anyone else knows otherwise, please correct me.

 

[R C Cola]

Welding

Most frame shops will bolt the section in (scared of insurance companies) previous poster is correct. If the person welding is qualified and does a good job it is just as good as factory. The weld should look good and penetrate properly. Not the place for a novice to practice. Any section replaced should be reinforeced across the break. Finished job is stronger than factory.

 

[PToombs]

When we shortened the frames on the trucks at work we always cut it in a Z. Down 1/2 way, across about 6", then down to the bottom. Never saw one break that way. I've seen many other trucks done this way too. Extra plate in this area is a must.

 

[Steve Graham]

Cut at 45 degrees, weld both sides for 100% penetration and add fish plate on the inside.



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[TPringle]

Do you overlap or butt weld? Thank you for the advice! I have done some welding in my time and I hope to save this truck!

 

[CKelley1]

i butt weld, then gring flush the weld on the side you put the fish plate on, i have a preference for 7018 for the rod

 

[Steve Graham]

Do you overlap or butt weld? Thank you for the advice! I have done some welding in my time and I hope to save this truck!

Butt weld... ...

 

[GHarman]

When we shortened the frames on the trucks at work we always cut it in a Z. Down 1/2 way, across about 6", then down to the bottom. Never saw one break that way. I've seen many other trucks done this way too. Extra plate in this area is a must.

There are several really good processes mentioned here. You MUST remember to preheat your base metal before welding. That includes a mild steel, to a minimum of 200*F. You will see why as you preheat the area. The moisture will form on the steel and evaporate. Use 7018 rod . This rod must be oven dried and kept warm. There is some 7018 moisture resistant rod available. My preference is Lincoln Excalibur 7018 MR. If it is in a new package, it does not have to be baked. If left open over night, stick it in the oven until you need it the next day.

Clean up the frame down to shiny metal around the break, on both sides. Get a Dye Penetrant kit from a welding supplier. Check around the break for other fatigue cracks. That will show you the minimum amount that needs to be removed. If there are no cracks other than the break. Use the break as your repair weld joint (this eliminates one weld on the frame). Bevel on both sides or one side if you are an experienced structural weldor. Grind it flush and install a fish plate with angled ends /=\ or \=/. NO FINISHED WELD should be perpendicular to the frame. Personally, I would do it on the outside of the frame, cause you can weld the parallel sides and get good weld penetration without slag entrapment not to mention proper rod angle. If you have to replace a section of frame, I would use the method that PToombs mentioned above along with the "fish plate". This is IMHO. Hope this is useful. GregH

PS, UNPLUG YOUR PCM at The Wiring harness plug!

 

[PToombs]

Good points Greg. Sorry, I forgot about the no finished weld perpendicular to the frame. We do the same at work when we put grapples and thumbs on the excavators.

 

[sdstriper]

Find someone with an older FSM, there is a frame welding procedure in there. I think it is in my 83' FSM, I'll double check and report back. Maybe Mysteryman will comment too...

 

[sdstriper]

There are service procedures in the Frame Structures section of the 1983 FSM. It includes info on straightening, drilling holes, welding and reinforcement. The following paragraphs are right out of that section,



Welding



Welding of siderails and crossmembers should be done, preferably, with electric welding equipment as it retains heat in a small area limiting the change of hardeness of metal. A frame member is to be closely inspected for cracks. It is possible that cracks will appear as a result of straightening of a member. In either case, crack or cracks are to be repaired as follows:

1. stop drill at the end point of the crack with 1/8 inch drill

2. v-groove crack to allow good weld penetration.

3. weld up the crack

4. grind surface smooth if reinforcement is to be used



Reinforcing



Reinforcement can be made from channel, angle or flat stock of common carbon steel and approximately equal in thickness to the part to be repaired. It is not possible to recommend proper reinforcement for all repairs. A reinforcement should provide an adequate section in cracked area and have sufficient overlap with the original part and be properly attached.

Reinforcing channel should have flanges shorter than sidemember flanges to preclude welding along edge of rail flange. Otherwise, longitudinal welds are quite acceptable. Complete transverse welds are to be avoided.



There is also a paragraph on using fasteners to repair or reinforce frames if anyone wants me to include this I would at a later time. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[Ncostello]

Read through this and it tells how Ford recommends adding wheelbase to SuperDutys by cutting and welding the frame. The metals in this discussion should be the same as your frame material. Both are workable... and perhaps the same. I know they didn't use any special steel material. Lots of times I've seen guys weld goosenecks right to the frame... although I wouldn't for a lot of reasons.



https://www.fleet. ford.com/truckBBAS/non-html/Q18.pdf

 

[TPringle]

Thanks again for the info! I had in mind to use my Lincoln Weldpac 100 wire welder. This is my favorite machine, and have most of my experiance using this welder. I also have a Lincoln 225 "buzzbox", which I have scarcely used since the wire welder came into play. Does anybody see problems using the wire welder? I use the flux core wire.

 

[GHarman]

Thanks again for the info! I had in mind to use my Lincoln Weldpac 100 wire welder. This is my favorite machine, and have most of my experiance using this welder. I also have a Lincoln 225 "buzzbox", which I have scarcely used since the wire welder came into play. Does anybody see problems using the wire welder? I use the flux core wire.

Not at all, as long as you are using the flux core wire (70XX, 70,000 PSI tensile strength). It has lower hydrogen content than 7018 electrodes and will actually be better for the frame as the Heat Affected Zone will be much narrower! Just dont store it in a damp area. GregH

 

[KOG]

If that's a 100 amp machine it probably won't give you sufficient penetration. I've done some frame reinforcement on mine with a Miller 175 and it just will make enough heat for frame penetration. 6013 rods with the buzz box will penetrate, but an A/C welder won't work quite as well on vertical passes. It will work though.

 

[GHarman]

If that's a 100 amp machine it probably won't give you sufficient penetration. I've done some frame reinforcement on mine with a Miller 175 and it just will make enough heat for frame penetration. 6013 rods with the buzz box will penetrate, but an A/C welder won't work quite as well on vertical passes. It will work though.

If he bevels his weld joint and uses multiple passes ( cleaning between passes) with a preheat he will be able to do an excellent job. It will take some skill and patience. I would not use 6013 on a critical structural weld that will be operated in public. GregH

 

[KOG]

The reason for 6013 is that the frame is a 1020 or similar grade. That's the appropriate rod for such a mild steel. The 7018 rod you mentioned earlier is a fine rod. It's excellent for high strength steel. Somewhat more difficult to use, but penetrates well, and definitely much stronger than the frame.

 

[GHarman]

The reason for 6013 is that the frame is a 1020 or similar grade. That's the appropriate rod for such a mild steel. The 7018 rod you mentioned earlier is a fine rod. It's excellent for high strength steel. Somewhat more difficult to use, but penetrates well, and definitely much stronger than the frame.

Hey Bud, Structural steel (A-36) is generally 60,000 PSI tensile Strength. While 7018 is stronger than the parent metal, it is most often called out in a Weld Procedure Specification for joining a critical weldment. You could use 6011 or 6010 but those are fast freeze rods and are not low hydrogen. They would work as a root pass with a 7018 cover pass. The wirefeed unit that was mentioned, using fluxcore wire is probably the best method of repairing this frame IMHO. 6013 is not something that I would even consider for a truck frame repair. Yes, it matches the frame tensile strength but is not a structural rod. It has inferior notch toughness. There are more considerations here than matching tensile strength. There are notch toughness, elasticity, plastic deformation, hydrogen porosity in/on a stressed member. There is more, but I have my welding books packed away. So, Just speaking from experience, which is considerable. Stay away from the 6013 in this application. GregH

 

[Flexiheep]

Can't comment on the rod and wire selection, but I will say that I have owned a weldpack 100 for about 15 years now, and would never think about welding my Dodge frame with it.

They call it a 100, but it peaks at 88 amps 20% duty cycle if you read the front.

I bought a Hobart Stickmate AC/DC box to stick weld my frame together on the club to crew conversion I have been doing. 6011 root with a 7018 cap on the actual frame splices and 7018 on the reinforcing plates, all DC.