Frantz fuel filter flow test

[Ralph Wood]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

Ralph, I suspect you will find the same issues as I did where the 24 valve engines are concerned - it can be VERY difficult to get the high degree of filtering we're looking for, and at the same time get adequate flow of fuel to the VP-44 on anything close to a stock fuel delivery setup - the 2 goals are diametrically opposed to each other!



This is not an issue with bypass oil filtration, since a high rate of flow is not an issue, high filtration is! But things are different where a full-flow *fuel* system seeking extremely high filtration rates is concerned.



The VP-44 absolutely MUST HAVE adequate flow rates to not only feed the engine, but also to cool and lube the pump - to do that requires the ability to flow approximately 45 GPH at even the HIGHEST loads placed upon the engine - and at inlet PSI to the VP-44 at something close to 10 lbs. or so (my guesstimate... ).



Try to do it with LESS, and you will leave yourself open to pump failures, unhappy customers - and possible expensive liability issues...



I can't speak as to other injector pumps and fuel delivery setups - but that's the way I see it with trucks like mine. Mine will work fine because I have added a pusher pump to my fuel delivery system that provides the needed additional fuel pressure and flow needed to overcome the restriction of the Frantz - and is what *I* consider the absolute MINIMUM needed for use with filters like these.



"The weakness of bathroom tissue filters is leakage around the core. "



Frantz seems to have effectively addressed that issue on their filters by going to a larger diameter center post that provides a tight fit to the TP core, which then is increased as internal pressure in operation eliminates any remaining leakage path. On my older oil unit, it was easy enough to simply place a couple of neoprene O-rings around the center post to provide a snug fit - operational pressure then completed the seal to the point you could easily see the indentations inside the core on used filters where firm contact had been established.



Good luck with your setup.

Thanks for the encouragement. I only have two Frantz's left. They are the old ones for 1 1/2" tp or the Frantz element. I haven't sold the Frantz since Diffusion Technologies owned them. I have a Frantz on my air cooled diesel at work. I was thinking about sleeving it with copper. I sleeved my old M-100 Motor Guard. I have the Frantz hanging upside down on the fuel. The other Frantz is on a Ford C-6 transmission. I returned my over 40 year old Frantz. It has the knobs. It has sentimental value to me. You can imagine how much money it saved me in over 30 years of use.

I was installing a Gulf coast filter on a John Deere tractor. The guy said my uncle had tp filters on his farm equipment but they didn't look like that. I lifted the hood on the old Impala and showed him the Frantzes. He said thats them.

There is definately some interest in submicronic filters. After 40 years I will stay with TP. It has served me well. I know that with a good fuel pump the TP filters can clean 1 GPM.



Ralph

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

As a followup on this subject, this morning I changed both the Frantz oil bypass filter and the Frantz fuel filter TP elements - here's what the fuel filter element looks like with about 8,000 miles on it:



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Not bad overall, but here's a pic of the top surface where contaminent particles are most evident:



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Probably won't show such fine detail in an internet photo - but that top surface is literally peppered with MANY fine metallic particles! Looks like a starry sky on a dark, clear night - and since my fuel flow is filtered by 4 different filters before it ever reaches THIS element, it seems pretty likely the particles are those shed by the pusher and stock lift pumps as they wear thru normal use.



The Frantz fuel filter is installed ahead of the stock fuel filter, and presumably it would have caught all or most of those as well - but given the extremely tight tolerances of the VP-44, *I* am sure happy to have an added level of defense against what I see on the above filter!

 

[mhenon]

Another after-market gizmo???

DAMN you KJ6Q!!!! Now I have to have the Frantz fuel filter too!



Gary... you need to give us a little time between mods. I just had my wife calmed downed from the purchase of the AFE, TAG and Frantz by-pass filter. And now this. I'll cook up some kinda

story.

Really though, this looks interesting. I also thought of a fuel filter in the return line..... but decided by time it got to the return line... it's too late. . the damage has been done if there was something nasty in the fuel.

There's no such thing as "Too" clean when it comes to fuels and oils. So, here's my latest idea.

I've wanted to install a spare tank in the bed... . but just something simple. When my main tank gets low. . go out and throw a lever from the extra tank and re-fill the main... no switches or electronics. . just a manual lever.

Now I'm thinking... wait a second. . why not put a 12 volt pump and filter (filters) at the spare tank and pump really clean fuel into the main. This way I don't have to mess with the stock set-up under the truck. Everything is right there where you can get to it. If the pump or filters fail at some point (they will) just forget it and use the main tank.

This, of course, will only be practical for those folks wanting a spare tank in the bed... but thats been on my mind anyway.



Is there no end to this madness????



Mike. . KJ7GI

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I've wanted to install a spare tank in the bed... . but just something simple. When my main tank gets low. . go out and throw a lever from the extra tank and re-fill the main... no switches or electronics. . just a manual lever.

Now I'm thinking... wait a second. . why not put a 12 volt pump and filter (filters) at the spare tank and pump really clean fuel into the main. This way I don't have to mess with the stock set-up under the truck. Everything is right there where you can get to it. If the pump or filters fail at some point (they will) just forget it and use the main tank.



You mean sorta like THIS:



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Another shot showing fuel delivery into the main tank breather line:



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There are 2 filters there, a smaller one immediately ahead of the Carter transfer pump, and the large spin-on one at the output, between the in-bed tank and main tank. All that is fine, and DOES provide excellent filtering of new fuel flowing into the system - but the main fuel supply system in our trucks is constantly recirculating fuel thru the stock LP - and a pusher if installed - and then thru the VP-44 and the rest of the system - many opportunities for wear particles to be shed into the fuel flow AFTER initial filtering, no matter HOW effective that filtering might be!



In the case of the small metallic particles I tried to show on the used Frantz TP cartridge, a close inspection with a powerful magnifying glass shows them to appear to be copper particles - possibly wear off the LP and pusher pump motor commutator - either normal wear, or possibly I have an unusual wear issue developing - in either case, sure glad to get that stuff OUT of there!

 

[rbattelle]

Gery,



As mhenon comments, your posts do nothing but make more work for me.



Please keep it up!



-Ryan