Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Front Band Replacement question

[BTMaltby]

I am dropping the transmission pan on my 2001 47RH-RE to install a master selenoid service kit. Since this is the first time I have done this and my transmission has 200,000 miles on it my question is can replace the front band from the underside while the pan is off.

 

[BlackBullit]

No. You will have to remove the transmission to replace the band. And unless you are good with trannys take it to a reputable rebuilder. Is the transmission giving you any problems?? If not I wouldn't worry about it. I would recommend tho while you are into it, you should adjust the bands.

 

[BTMaltby]

Thanks for the reply. The problem is first to second gear delayed shifting - a recent development. My wife took it to a dealership and they quoted $2,400 to repair stating the band was broken? Knowing what I know now I don't know how they would know that without dropping the pan which they did not do. So that is why I decided to do master selenoid service kit with band adjustment to see if that fixed the problem first.

 

[BlackBullit]

Sounds like you are thinking down the right track. If that doesn't fix that problem then you will be looking at a rebuild. The stock bands are known for burning up. When and if you get it rebuilt make sure you get a Kevlar band, they don't wear out like the originals.

 

[cerberusiam]

Yes, you can replace the front band by just dropping the VB. A slip in band is available for these transmissions that does not require tear down. The are lined with the High Energy lining and beefier than the stock flex bands. Stay away from kevlar in DD street driven truck, the kevlar is a lot harder on the drum than the HE bands. You want the band to wear not the drum. Kevlar will get hotter faster and not burn the band off, it will hot spot the drum and chew it up if it ever gets too loose or drags. The HE bands are carbon fibier mix and what you want.

If you have 2nd gear the band is not broke. Probably the crappy transdcuer not working correctly or the solenoid messed up. You can check if the front band is still connected by simply attempting to adjust the front band. If the set screw never tightens the band is broke or the linake fell out. On a stock transmission it is almost alwasy the linkage fell out becasue it was not adjusted correctly.

 

[DavidC]

Cerb, out of curiosity where can this slip band be found ?.

Dave

 

[cerberusiam]

http://transmissiontechnologies.com/a727-a518-a618-kickdown-flex-band-slip-in.aspx

Couple other places used to have it and their web sites are dead. I got mine from WIT Trans. The last one I ordered came from here.

 

[DavidC]

Thanks, good to know about things like this because you never know when you may need it. Of course by then I will probably have forgotten, getting old really stinks.

Dave

 

[BTMaltby]

Thanks again Cerberusiam for great information. Yes, I saw a video where the guy had just that problem with the front band becoming lose. He found the loose piece when he dropped the valve body. He fixed it and was rolling again in perfect shape. Will be dropping the pan this weekend to change the fluid and replace the selenoid and transducer, filter & pan gasket. Will install a pan drain plug while I am at it.

 

[BTMaltby]

Well the front band rocker arm is totally loose. Haven't dropped the valve body yet but I am sure I will find either or both the front band apply strut and front band anchor strut laying in there. Any cautions when dropping the valve body?

 

[cerberusiam]

Do you mean the apply lever?

Tip on dropping the VB; jack up one rear wheel and drop the VB out with park rod attached. Simply roll the wheel forward and back will pulling the VB fowardf until the rod pops thru the pawl. Install the same way.

 

[BTMaltby]

Yes that is correct it would be the apply lever. I was planning on detaching the valve body and just letting it hang if that would not damage it (?). I also imagine that I will have to cut one end off the front band in order to pull the whole thing out (?) I am assuming that the band lining is so worn that it came apart due to slack and lack of proper adjustment.

 

[cerberusiam]

No, the VB is too heavy to just let hand. The only thing to hang it on is the park rod and if you bend it you will never have park correctly. Pull the VB and you will see it is heavy and really no place to hang it to work on the band. Like I said take every thing loose that needs to then drop the VB out of the case. Once you have it down pull it forward to pull the park rod thur the pawl. The detent may still be in park when you start so get it to 1st gear 1st before dropping and you will have more slack. Steady pressure forward as you rooll the drive line will evenetually engage the pawl in the output shaft and the ned will pop right thru. You put it back in the same way, slowly roll the tire as you stad it into the pawl and it pops thru.

Yes, you have to cut the band to get it out. A pair of tin snips usually does the job if needed. Check the band first, I have had them fall apart and there is still material on the band. Check the band first and look at the drum to be sure.

There are good an bad things about the flx bands. The good is they conform more readily around the drum and apply more surface with less pressure. A rigid band almost always wears more an apply more at the ends becasue they are too rigid. The bad thing is the bands stretch with heat and use. When they stretch they just get loose and band strut falls out.

On of my pet peeves is when people say NOT to adjust the band on regular basis and absolutely swear it is not needed, trans builders don't recommend it, and they have driven xxxxxxx miles so it has to be true. There is REASON this is a recommended check at every trans maintenance. Stock answer is whne you use the truck the way it is intended and the band linkage falls out then you will see the light.

Check the ends of the band carefully for any of the rivets popped out or the anchor on the band loose. They will pop them loose at times if you have a shift kit.

 

[BTMaltby]

My slip in band should be delivered around Monday of next week so I went under the truck after work today. I removed the manual shift linkage and loosened the bolts on the external shift lever which is loose and ready to come off. However the external throttle valve lever is not loose even with the bolt and square nut totally removed. Should I just pry it up with a screw driver?

Also the electrical connector on the park/neutral plug does not want to come off. Is there some special unseen tab that holds it in place or does it just need a little prying?

The front band anchor strut fell out while I was jiggling things around. The accumulator piston return spring was broken (glad I had one in the kit I bought). Makes me think I should keep one on the shelf.

 

[cerberusiam]

Yes, just pry the lever up and off. They crimp down when tightened and need to be pryed loose as a rule.

 

[BTMaltby]

Thanks again Cerb! Its hard to see from underneath. I also think I have enough extra wire to back out the park/neutral plug so that the on/off button is out of the way.

 

[cerberusiam]

If it is the old style neutral safety switch that should should just pull striaght off. Might have to use pliers to get it loose but there hould not be a lock on it.

 

[DTWeber]

From what I have seen , and I have taken a few apart ,I would take the trans out and put a good Kevlar band in it , and I have seen them break where the band anchor is , good luck putting one in without removing trans

 

[BTMaltby]

I was hoping to get by with just reconnecting the band strut and anchor strut, but there just isn't enough lining left on the band. I tried to adjust the front band with the struts put back in but there was no gap between the band ends when I torqued the front band adjusting bolt to 72 inch lbs. Fortunately the front direct clutch housing is not grooved. Had hoped to avoid disconnecting the park rod (supported the valve body with a piece of 6 X 6 and a couple of short pieces of 2 X 4 which allowed me to lower it just enough to get the band struts back in place.

Now I will have to disconnect the park rod in order to remove the valve body. Then I will cut off the collar of the old band on the driver side and attach a piece of wire cable on the driver side of the band. Then pull the old band out and at the same time pulling the wire cable around the direct clutch housing. Note: the new band collar has been cut down on the driver side so it is thinner than normal and thinner than the passenger side.

I figure having a wire cable attached to the leading edge will allow me to pull it down tighter against the front direct clutch housing as I feed it thru from the passenger side via push pull.

 

[cerberusiam]

Don't disconnect the park rod just pull it thru the pawl, a lot easier to deal with. Jack up one rear wheel and move a little at a time until the rod pops thru the pawl.

The wire will help get it past the one rib that is the problem but you may still have to slide it a bit to clear.