2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Front control arms

[rickybobby]

Can anyone tell me what the approximate length for the front adjustable control arms should be for a 2000 ram 4x4 with a 6 inch lift should be? I've had this truck in the several shops several times for alignment and it still rides rough. I had the last guy delete the cams and do adjustment by the control arms but they are in the shortest setting. Also the springs which are Carli look like the have a curve to them which tells me the axle needs to be pushed forward. The control arms as well as the trac bar are adjustable so there is no excuse why it can't be set up right. The end links are extended also. I'm not sure if anyone knows how to set these trucks ups. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Bob4x4]

You say 6'' lift then you say 3'' springs????

 

[rickybobby]

All my info hasn't been completely up dated. But believe me its a 6 inch lift. I'm just searching for a little info not looking to be investigated.

 

[Bob4x4]

Relax amigo,Carli does not offer a 6'' springs for the 2nd gen,so at the very least you have a mismatched system.Adjusting the length by some small amount will not make your ride softer.The 2nd and 3rd gen springs are a different rate and you make no mention of what type shock.

 

[AEdelheit]

To do it properly pull the coils out, jack up the front axle to full bump stop travel and extend the arms as long as you can get them without the axle hitting anything. A 6" lift on short arms will not ride good though regardless of control arm length.

 

[rickybobby]

Thanks AE for the info. Like I said my trucks profile hasn't been updated in awhile. so here what I got I installed 3" carli spring lift along with Core 4x4 adjustable control arms. These units are really stout and have plenty of adjustment. I installed synergys adjustable trac bar along with carli's s/s sway bar links. Although is was only suppose to be a 3" lift it actually lifted my truck 4.25" from before and after measurements. Then I put a set of 35" Nitto's on and got some tire rub in certain situations. So I figure I needed more lift so I install a Daystar 2" urethane coil spacer. Installed Bilstein shocks for a 6" lift and swapped out the sway bar links for longer ones. Took to the alignment shop had them install the cam delete washers and do all the adjustment with the control arms. But with all that lift the adjustment on control arms move very little. Maybe just enough to do the alignment and that's it. What I'm getting at is as these trucks are lifted, the front axle swings back toward the cab. Shouldn't the control arm be extended to compensate for this? I would think that the wheelbase had to be shorten somewhat and I still have tire rub. I suppose every truck is different but there should be some approximate length for the arms to be. Maybe we just need to measure the wheelbase and go from there. I don't know if any of this make sense in the real world but this is my thought process. Thanks for any info

 

[JMcCoy]

35s, with propper backset wheels, should not rub, even with a 3" lift. For the best ride, you want to push your front axle as far forward as you can. Too far and your track bar hits your differential. A 3" lift needs around 5/8 longer arms. A 6" needs somewhere around an inch or more. I don't have the exact overall length on hand, but I can measure mine tomorrow to get you in the ballpark.

As for the guys doing your alighment, DON'T go back. They don't know what they're doing. Go to a real alighment shop. I mean an "alighment shop," not a tire shop with an alignment rack.

Also, those cams *you removed were never intended to make caster adjustments. Neither are the adjustable control arms. You want to adjust your contol arms to set the pinion angle. Caster/camber adjustments are made with ball joint accentrics. If you are too far out of caster adjustment, you may need to sacrifice pinion angle*for more caster with control arm adjustment. These trucks like A LOT of caster. Don't go by Dodges original specs. It is late and just came off a 16hr shift, so I hope this all makes sense.*

 

[rickybobby]

Thanks JMcCoy for that info. It best answered my original question. Are you saying that I should reinstall the cams? I'm not 100% sure what the cams do that the adjustable control arms can't? Your saying I would have to sacrifice pinion angle for castor and I wouldn't have to do that with the cams installed?

 

[JMcCoy]

The adjustable control arms replace the cams, though it would have done no harm to keep them in. Set your control arms for the correct pinion angle. Then have the alignment adjusted with the ball joint accentrics. Actually, *if memory serves me correct, 00-02 axles actually use offset upper ball joints instead of accentrics to make the adjustment. *If your castor is out beyond the ball joint offsets available, then you adjust the control arms to make up the difference. You may then sacrifice a little pinion/driveshaft angle to get the proper castor. Hope that clears up my jibbert jabber.

 

[rickybobby]

Thanks it does help. You said don't go by Dodge's specs. for alignment what specs should I go by for a 6" lift?

 

[Bob4x4]

Back up some...........the cams are for caster adjustment,there is no camber adjustment available from the factory.The camber is fixed in the housing when built.The Dana 60 in the 2nd gen does not have eccentrics built in.The Kore(not core) arms can be used for castor adjustment.The caster/pinion angle has a fixed relationship.The only way to change that is to cut the welds and rotate the ends.This was a requirement when swapping diffs from a scout to a jeep and can be a diy if you have the skills and tools.You can buy offset upper balljoints that will change camber but they wear out fast when using big tires.My 94 went to a new home where Carli control arms and 3" spring have allowed the use of 37''s.Pull your blocks out and loose the bow

You may also run into registration issues.Pa has lift height laws for bumper and headlights.They also have a law against front lift blocks,I suppose some inspectors may consider a spacer lift in the same category.

 

[Bob4x4]

Contact KORE they should be able to answer any questions you may have 4k in control arms should be a big enough buy in

 

[JMcCoy]

Bob4x4, I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. That is why you need a real alignment shop, that makes the correct adjustments using the correct methods, as shown below. This is how the axle was designed from Dana.

View attachment 98213

The reason people cut and reweld the inner Cs is because they have TOO much angle that can not be compensated for with the ball joints. This is a bigger problem with the Jeeps, as you mentioned, because of their short wheelbase.

 

[BarryG]

My 01 did not come with offset ball joints and as far as I know there was no difference between the 2000 and 2001 front ends . You could put them on after market but it didn't come OEM with them. I never did as I didn't seem to need them with my setup originally a Kore Chase way back when and then later Carli Pintop w/ arms though it wasn't 6 inches of lift either.

 

[AEdelheit]

The only reason to ever run a offset balljoint would be if you need to adjust camber which should only happen if the axle is bent. As Bob said the eccentric cams are designed to adjust caster and pinion angle is directly tied to caster, cant change one without the other unless you use an adjustable ball joint, at that point you did something wrong IMO. Some people can claim we are wrong but research and the FSM will prove otherwise.

Any adjustable arm may seem to have alot of adjustment but remember the longer the arms are adjusted the weaker the arms are, you need to keep as much thread inside the arm as possible. I would verify with Kore what the maximum length of those arms are and that they are infact the right arms for your application.

 

[JMcCoy]

Accentrics/offset ball joints are also for caster. It is the only way to adjust for cross-caster. On a stock to leveled truck, you can get away with cranking the cams. A 6" lift is a whole different animal.

The alignment shop should have a pit, or drive on rack (pit is better) so he can make adjustments, then test drive, then adjust. The guy who did mine took it for over a dozen test drives, with adjustments in between. It is expensive and time consuming, *but it's done right. Tire Kingdom does not have that ability. Yes I am (or at least was) ASE certified in steering and suspension. To the OP, read the posts and you decide which route to take. I dont want to go back and forth with these fine gentlemen.*

 

[GrantP]

35s, with proper backset wheels, should not rub, even with a 3" lift.

To the OP, reread that statement. Remove the spacer and run the correct offset wheels and the suspension geometry will be much better and no rub.

 

[GrantP]

Contact KORE they should be able to answer any questions you may have 4k in control arms should be a big enough buy in

Bob, I think he's talking about these guys. https://www.core4x4.com/products/dodge-ram-2500-1994-2008/

Not Kore "Performance".

 

[rickybobby]

Well guys there has been a wealth of info coming out of this thread that might take me awhile to absorb. All because I wanted to know what the approximate length of the control arms should be for a 6" lift. Anyway BOB the control arms ARE Core 4x4 out of Utah and not Kore who which I'm aware of and I only paid under $400 for all 4 not 4k. And the coil spring spacer is not a blocks . It fits between the upper spring mount and coil spring to give additional lift. I only installed them as a temporary measure to see if it would fix my tire rub problem before I went out and purchased 6" springs which will be Thuren because now I know Carli doesn't make them for my truck. And as for the laws in Pa. My truck will be no problem. There are some trucks in my area they need a helicopter to get in them. So I think I'm good. I have to agree with JMcCoy I need to find a shop that specializes in alignments. Thanks for every ones input