Front Diff Worthless

[MMiller]

you guys are right. you must have big weight in the bed to pull stuck things. i pulled a small bulldozer with a 94 ford gaser in low range in 4wheel drive, i also had 5000lbs of stone in back. and a locker rear! kp

No, you just need to get some slack, make sure everybody is ready, pin the throttle, hit the end of the strap, and stay in the throttle to dig four holes, that way the strap can't pull you back. You know a truck is really stuck, when you hook two or three high powered, mud tire equipped, locked in both ends offroad trucks, to free one stuck truck. The music of multiple trucks pulling in unison in the timber is beautiful!



FWIW, I rarely use low side when pulling stuff in the snow or ice. My CTD breaks the tires loose quick enough the way it is when traction is low, putting it in low side of the T/case and low gear just multiplies the problem.



Michael

 

[steved]

So there are no clutches in the differential or T-case that could be out of spec huh?



Thanks.

No clutches in either the front differential or tcase that could cause the driveline to "slip".



steved

 

[cojhl2]

It is not that they are not as strong in reverse it is this: Imagine the ring and pinion and the truck in drive (going forward). The pinion is wanting to go into the ring and when in reverse the pinion is wanting to go away from the ring and if there is a wheel hop then there is slack and then a sudden load and that is where the failure come from.



On a lighter note, I see that you live in Waitsburg as well. I hauled a ton of cattle out of that area and Rodeo stock too. Good to see someone from familur stompin grounds.

Very good point,, I had not thought about that! I guess I have always pulled fairly easy loads.



Wow,, not to many people know where Waitsburg is. . If you ever get up that way again CBrahs stop at the hardware store and ask for me. . They will get you the directions, it's just out of town toward Dayton.



However I am only there in the summer. . Looking forward to seeing you sometime. (My sister lives there full time. )

 

[cojhl2]

No clutches in either the front differential or tcase that could cause the driveline to "slip".



steved

Brings up a point. . Since there are not unlocking hubs, isn't the drive line essentially disengaged from the turning wheels by that funky clutch that allows the stub axles to run the spiders?



Or are these new pickups built like my dakota,, complete drive line turns all the time albeit disconnected from the rear wheel drive shaft.

 

[JHardwick]

No, you just need to get some slack, make sure everybody is ready, pin the throttle, hit the end of the strap, and stay in the throttle to dig four holes, that way the strap can't pull you back. You know a truck is really stuck, when you hook two or three high powered, mud tire equipped, locked in both ends offroad trucks, to free one stuck truck. The music of multiple trucks pulling in unison in the timber is beautiful!



Michael

It is a beatiful sight, and the larger the mud clods the better.



The worst I was ever a part of, was a truck in a hole with a broke front end and dropped rear shaft.



Picture this, we drug a wrecker back the drag road where the broke truck was stuck.



The wrecker wanted to stand on it's ***, so we tied a truck to the front bumper of the wrecker as an anchor.



Then, me and another guy were on each side of the wrecker honing on it Oo.



Oh, and then there was the time we buried a Jonh Deere :-laf



I miss my '79 Ford , but I'm too old for all that kinda fun anyway :-laf

 

[JHardwick]

Brings up a point. . Since there are not unlocking hubs, isn't the drive line essentially disengaged from the turning wheels by that funky clutch that allows the stub axles to run the spiders?



Or are these new pickups built like my dakota,, complete drive line turns all the time albeit disconnected from the rear wheel drive shaft.

Front end is only disconnected by the X-sfer case.

 

[fkovalski]

Craig-



The reason yer truck was not working is because it is TOO clean!. These Dodge's work much better with a lil' bit o' dirt on em! :-laf

 

[cojhl2]

Front end is only disconnected by the X-sfer case.

Sounds to me like we should all have unlocking hubs if we spend major time on the highway.



One of these threads talked about that, it is a pretty expensive addition but it would seem it's worth it.



Less wear and tear and better fuel milage.

 

[JHardwick]

Less wear and tear and better fuel milage.

A lot of times, a front end that lays dormant will dry up and wear out quicker, IMHO. Beyond that, I'm not convinced there is much to be had in the way of fuel mileage ... ... ... . a motor pushing an 8,000# truck with 600#/ft of torque is not going to be affected much by some free wheeling parts. But, there is a 10 page thread on this subject.

 

[steved]

A lot of times, a front end that lays dormant will dry up and wear out quicker, IMHO. Beyond that, I'm not convinced there is much to be had in the way of fuel mileage ... ... ... . a motor pushing an 8,000# truck with 600#/ft of torque is not going to be affected much by some free wheeling parts. But, there is a 10 page thread on this subject.

I do not agree with this statement, locking hubs were used for years and I never once heard of a front differential failure or leak from components not spinning... that's like saying if you leave your truck parked for the winter it's going to wear out.



And being one that owns an 04 with the DT kit, I can tell you that it would amaze you how much difference there is driving one without hubs versus one having hubs, especially if you think there is going to be no difference. It is quite noticeable in both driving characteristics and fuel mileage. While it might not have a real effect on a 2nd gen with CAD, it has a pretty big effect on a 3rd gen without CAD (and therefore no means of disconnect).



steved

 

[PRush]

The BFG Rugged Trail T/A's were great for me longevity, 75,000 miles. They were worthless for offroad traction. I am now running Goodyear MTR 285/17 for the winter. Awesome mud, snow, & rock tire. I also have the 400lb. ShurTrak water bladder in the bed of the truck.

I just pulled a new Jeep Rubicon, buried, out of a 3 foot snowbank up near Independence Pass, Co. My stock 03 Quad, 4x4, 48RE was positioned 0n 4-6 inches of hard pack snow, pulling from the rear, using a 30 foot web strap. I pulled the buried to the front bumper Jeep out without even spinning or grunting in 4 Hi. It was no more difficult than pulling a bass boat up the boat ramp.

I would look at the tires. Was there any weight in the bed?

 

[cojhl2]

I kind of agree with steved re the drag.



On my Dakota with the front jacked up there is a significant drag trying to turn the wheels. I can only attribute that to the mechanical disadvantage going thru the differential to turn the propeller shaft.



I think when some manufactures use(d) that axle shaft disconnect(whatever it's called) the thought was/is that the spiders could counter rotate the shafts and therefore decrease drag.



Personally though I think that solution is a POS.



My 1990 with hub disconnects seem to allow the wheels to turn much more freely than my Dakota.



I gotta go find that thread on all this. .

 

[JHardwick]

I do not agree with this statement, locking hubs were used for years and I never once heard of a front differential failure or leak from components not spinning... that's like saying if you leave your truck parked for the winter it's going to wear out.

There is a lot of truth to this.

And being one that owns an 04 with the DT kit, I can tell you that it would amaze you how much difference there is driving one without hubs versus one having hubs, especially if you think there is going to be no difference. It is quite noticeable in both driving characteristics and fuel mileage. While it might not have a real effect on a 2nd gen with CAD, it has a pretty big effect on a 3rd gen without CAD (and therefore no means of disconnect).



steved

Like I said, there is a huge thread on the subject already, but lets throw a couple of numbers at it. Isn't the conversion like $2,500. 00? In my estimation, it would take darn near 500,000 miles at todays fuel prices to pay for the conversion depending on current fuel mileage.

 

[steved]

Like I said, there is a huge thread on the subject already, but lets throw a couple of numbers at it. Isn't the conversion like $2,500. 00? In my estimation, it would take darn near 500,000 miles at todays fuel prices to pay for the conversion depending on current fuel mileage.

Actually, $1800 shipped...



And several of us figured at TODAY'S fuel prices, it would take less than 100k to pay it off and start seeing a benefit... not to mention the reduced wear and tear on those components and added pleasure to drive.



It isn't a conversion for someone worried about pinching pennies after paying for a $40k truck they don't plan to keep for more than 12k miles.



steved

 

[crobertson1]

Two things need to be cleared up:



1. Frank, there is no such thing as "TOO clean"! Are you crazy?

2. PRush, that's what I expected to do with my 700lb atv( pull it right out). I could not believe I struggled to get it out. It wasn't even buried too badly.



I do think I'll hook it to a tree and pull gently to see what goes on at the front end. I was pulling from the back facing up hill with the atv downhill from the truck. I have heard on here that the Rugged Trail T/As are junk in the snow. I now believe it! The only weight in the back is from the topper.



One thing for sure, I'M SICK OF THIS SNOW! It'll be months before the dirt bikes can be ridden.

 

[SOLER]

A couple of things... the transfer case is never disconnected. The CAD is what engages. IF I'm not mistaken the new trucks with the AM Axles are the same? Correct me if I'm wrong. When you're cruising down the road, your front driveshaft is turning, but power isn't getting to the wheels because there is a disconnect in the longer front axle shaft.



Another thing, I always make sure when I'm engaging the 4x4, I always roll forward a little bit to make sure the splines have a chance to engage. If you were parked, hooked up your strap, then put it in 4 low, it might not have been able to engage fully. When you applied torque, it just slipped out. Also, when disengaging, I like to roll forward to make sure it is fully disengaged. A number of times I will put it back in 2 wheel, and the light goes out, and I'm rolling forward and turn and it starts crow-hopping. IF that happens I stop, back up about 10 feet and it's all good. I have found this to be the same on my 04 3500 diesel with manual shift, and my 07 1500 Hemi with electric shift. Just my 2 cents.



SOLER

 

[steved]

A couple of things... the transfer case is never disconnected. The CAD is what engages. IF I'm not mistaken the new trucks with the AM Axles are the same? Correct me if I'm wrong. When you're cruising down the road, your front driveshaft is turning, but power isn't getting to the wheels because there is a disconnect in the longer front axle shaft.



SOLER

The 3RD GEN do not have the CAD the 2ND GENs have... apples to oranges.



And even in the 2nd gen, the tcase is placed into 2wd and the front drive shaft theoretically doesn't turn, but still does very slightly due to parasitic drag... in the 3rd gen, the drive shaft spins all the time which can cause vibrations.



steved

 

[steved]

I'M SICK OF THIS SNOW! It'll be months before the dirt bikes can be ridden.

Snow???? That never stopped me from riding my bike!



steved

 

[DrDiesel]

The front diff. is not a locker. It`s an open diff. and will spin one wheel at a time. It will switch left to right depending on traction. It`s the weak link of stock 4x4`s.

Our trucks are 1x1 without a limited slip rear diff :--) and 3x1 with the LSD. It will also be limited as far as lockup on the rear diff with LSD. :{ Not designed for true off roding.

To get a real 4x4 you need a locker diff.

Locker`s on the street are hard on the drive train unless you can turn it on and off. . There is a front diff. locker carrier for $569. 00 dollars you can install. It has an electrical lock control so you can turn it on and off.

As for the rear, if you have a limited slip it should be good enough for recovery and off-roding with the front locker.

 

[ENafziger]

There is a front diff. locker carrier for $569. 00 dollars you can install. It has an electrical lock control so you can turn it on and off.

Can we get some more information on this? Do I understand you to say that there is an electric selectable locker currently available for the AAM front ends on our dodge trucks? Vendor? Thanks! Eric