2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission front end all new:but still wandering .Grrrrrrr.....

[GreggNoble]

Guys, could someone tell me what to do to make this truck feel like an 03-07 on the road, i have everything new on this front end i have the "steering stabalizer" installed ,steering box adjusted. new alignment, but its still hard work to keep the thing on the road!. my brothers have 03-07 2500 ram cummins and they drive perfectly,the steering is so easy on those whereas mine feels like standard steering and wanderall over the road, i really want to fix it but i`m so frustrated. everything is new but it still wanders and the steering wheel too hard to turn. any suggestions?

 

[JPittinger]

What do you drive? Fill out your signature so we can help.

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

Gregg the 03 if it is a 2 wheel was the first year with rack and pinion steering. Some late 02s had it too. My 2 wheel 98 12 v wandered all over the road. I finally found that the wrong steering box had been installed at the factory. WRONG RATIO if you can turn your steering wheel 4 & 1/4 turns stop to stop. 3 turns is what you need. I got a rebuilt box from Power Steering Services in Springfield MO and installed it myself. The difference is amazing. Dodge bought the steering boxes from GM. Excellent box but obviously they did not know how to order or did not know how to check what they were sent. Send me an E-mail if you wish to discuss this further, always glad to help. -- email address removed --

 

[GreggNoble]

Hi, i`m new here so i don`t know how to fill in the details of my truck profile but its a 2001 2500 cummins ram 180klms on the damn thing steers like a Unicycle!!!! any help appreciated doesn`t seem to be much info to get here in Canada.

 

[Oil Burner]

Gregg,

What have you done with your track bar? What tires and pressure are you running?



Jason

 

[Dave M]

Like "J. BURCHFIELD" said the steering box could be the culprit. I just relaced mine with a PSC 3 1/4 turn box and I steer with one finger now. THe PSS box is cheaper. PSC cost $330 and PSS $230.



What exactly have you replaced other than what you listed? There are other parts that could be bad. Forget that it was aligned. The specs are so wide it could still need a proper alignment by someone who knows these trucks.



Have you checked track bar? That is another part that is usually the problem. Any movement at all in the track bar ends is a problem. I just put the SS 3rd gen bracket and 3rd gen TB on mine along with a DSS steering stabilizer.



Check your tires (pressure and wear). Worn tires can cause it or low pressure. Check for any movement in tie rods. Check ball joints. Check shocks and control arm bushings. Verify no movement in steering shaft. Check the pitman arm nut is tight. It could be slop in the steering inner vs outer column... there is a fix for that.



Get under the truck and check the track bar while someone turns steering wheel lock to lock. Check the end on the frame and there should be zero movement in the joint as the steering is turned.



Dave

 

[GreggNoble]

thanks for the response guys, the mechanic at the shop is puzzled,according to him there is no reason for the wandering,everyting on the front end is tight and half is new,i have a new 5 day old trac bar, new tie rod ends ,new solid steel steering stabilizer kit,wheel bearings and ball joints on drivers side. new power steering pump, new tires still you would swear the thing has standard steering and wanders like a unicycle.

 

[rotohead]

The original design track bar is junk even if it is new, even if it is a MOOG aftermarket TB. If it's original design it won't last. If you bought a new OEM replacement track bar and can get your money back and order the 3rd generation bracket and 3rd generation bar that will help you out more than any other item. Like Dave M sazs the weak point is where it mounts to the frame. The DSS brace is good also but replacing the stock steering box to the 3turn box is a expensive but great upgrade. I've got one on order and can't wait to get it installed. Nobody who has done this upgrade has expressed regret with that upgrade. Tire press and a alignment shop that knows and cares what they're doing (good luck on that one) can help greatly too.

To do your signature goto the top of the page in TDR, click on 'disscusion forum' then on 'control panel'. On the left side of the next page you'll see 'edit signature'. Fill out the box so that others know what you're driving and can help you out more quickly.

Chuck

 

[Dave M]

What about shocks. It sounds to me like your next step is the steering box. If not that perhaps the shaft or steering column.



Here is a link to the steering column thread and the link to order the steering bushing fix:



http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159935&highlight=steering+column

http://www.rocksolidramtrucksteering.com/



Also, these trucks like a more positve caster like 3. 5-4. 5. Do a search on alignment specs and find what your truck should be set to. Since you just had the alignment done what are the figures it was set to?



Dave

 

[SMorneau]

The steering bushing in the lower part of the column will not this problem. But they can get rid of irritating clunks.



Even if the OEM style bars are junk, it should work for 5 days. I would verifiy it's tight and look elsewhere.



Tire pressure can make a huge difference. It would not hurt to look into that potential issue. find the proper inflation charts.



Don't rule out alignment either, do some reasearch on this site.



I would also check the steering box threads on this site.



Good luck

 

[GCULP]

one question, when it wanders or follows ruts, does it pull the steering wheel with it, or does it seem like there is slop somewhere in the system. one item you didn't mention was the steering shaft, they have universal joints that will loosen up as well.

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

Greg, there isn't much information to be had at a dealer or parts store. Alignment shops only know how to set caster camber and toe-in and check for worn parts. They don't know or care about steering box ratios. From my own experience it sounds like you have the wrong ratio. Turn your steering wheel and count the turns stop to stop then you will know for sure. You might want to put a floor jack under to take some of the weight off the tires. With the engine idling the power steering will assist you. If you have 4 & 1/4 turns as I suspect then your steering box should be replaced with one that is only 3 turns. Let me know if it is 4 & 1/4 and I will send you the phone number where you can get the right box shipped to you. A lot of guys from what I read on here have changed their steering box with the same wrong box they had and then they really get frustrated. A man named Quigley did that and told about having to take the box back and get the right one. The boxes have nothing on the outside to indicate what ratio they are, taking a pair of vice grips and turning the input shaft and counting the turns stop to stop is what you need to do to determine the ratio. Let me know -- email address removed --

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

Probably not the steering shaft but some of the problem could be there so count your turns and go from there. . To avoid future problems I put in a Borgesen shaft, expensive but to me worth it. -- email address removed --

 

[Ereynolds72]

Also, these trucks like a more positve caster like 3. 5-4. 5. Do a search on alignment specs and find what your truck should be set to. Since you just had the alignment done what are the figures it was set to?



Dave

I agree with this. Alignment shops set them to "spec" which might not be correct. Mine liked more positive caster. It really tightened up the steering. Also, what kind of wheels and tires do you have? Get E Rated tires if you haven't already.

 

[rotohead]

I agree that a OEM tb should hold up for a reasonable amount of miles but I'm saying that a 3rd gen upgrade makes the truck handle better even when compared to a new perfect conditon OEM setup because of the way it puts lateral load of the front axle on the frame rails. And second, along with it is a better designed bushing that last longer. One comes from the other... or something like that.

Chuck

 

[GreggNoble]

Thanks guys,for all your advice ,where i live here in Outport Newfoundland Canada there isn`t much knowledge about fixes for these trucks, so you are my best source of info, but to tell ya the truth i have my faith lost in this truck and Dodge as a whole,it seems to me that i could spend tens of thousands on this front end and still not be sure that its gonna be normal to drive. Does Dodge admitt that thier front end is trash on these trucks ?for a $43000. 00 truck to need an aftermarket front end is some dumb engineering! i think they need Toyota to show them how to build a front end ha ha ha .

I`d like to ask if you could afford one more modafication (like me) what would it be ? i have already spent thousands on this UNI-CYCLE with no sucess, if i wasn`t in love with that masculin clunkin cummins this truck would be gone today "ONE MORE MOD"?

 

[GreggNoble]

HI again guys, guess i should give a little more info on my front end,when i got it aligned i got the personal specs from the guy who designes the DSS here in canada so alignment should be good. The new trac bar is the origional but its the MOOG with the lifetime warrenty, there is a clunck in the steering wheel but no noticeable play or slackness,i adjusted all the freeplay out of my steeringbox myself, the tires are new balanced and 10 ply,i run areound 50psi in them ,i carry pallets of beer in the truck,i`m a Molson beer distributer. tierod ends have been changed too. i think the front springs must be weak though it bottoms out very easily on quik bumps. but even on a perfectly straigh road it still has to be continually corrected to keep it going straight. too bad i love the engine so much ha ha h aha ha . thanks again.

 

[GreggNoble]

i HAVE THE SIGNATURE FILLED OUT NOW I HOPE IT SHOWS, P. S MYTRUCK HAS A 4. 25 TURN STEERING BOX(HAD A HELL TO TURN)

 

[Dave M]

... ... ... ... I`d like to ask if you could afford one more modafication (like me) what would it be ? ..... "ONE MORE MOD"?

It sounds like alignment and TB are fine but your tires should be E rated since there are stiffer tires which helps this heavy front end.



If you get a 3 1/4 turn box you will at least lessen the effort to turn. I'd recommend a 3 1/4 turn box but since you mentioned the truck bottoming out you may at least consider shocks all round first. Springs?... . I've been thinking mine are shot too and they would be a factor but shocks first then the box.



I know thats two mods. You may really need the shocks. But... . the box will make you love driving the truck again and put a on your face that won't come off. It drives better than any car I've driven.



Dave

 

[SMorneau]

I agree with you Gregg and feel that Dodge doesn't deserve my business for the reasons you mentioned... My 93 Toyota Pickup had 3 headgaskets in it before 170k! Not that great in my opinion.



Fixing a truck is one thing but re-engineering it should be something neither we or the aftermarket should HAVE to do.