2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Front rotors replacement, 99 2500 4x4 - HUB assy too??

[dspoon]

Got my brake pads and rotors from auto accessories garage .com I bought the EBC sport rotors and the EBC 7000 green pads hd. shipped to my door for $325. 00 free shipping and they work great over the oem rotors.

 

[BK]

I'm looking forward to the slotted rotors.

 

[Dave M]

I'm looking forward to the slotted rotors.

I got my drilled slotted rotors from NAPA (made in USA... I made them check) but they were pricey at $135 apiece. I used NAPA Heavy Duty brake pads and they have held up fine... they look similar to the Hawk which I considered buying but decided to shop local. I will post a few pics of the rotors if I get a chance.



My drilled/slotted rotors and pads have very little wear and I use the front brakes frequently in the mountains on these windy roads. I'm satisfied with the rotors and pads.



The Quad 4x4 procedure is very good and will keep you on track so you don't miss anything. I can't wait to see how this turns out for you. Cross your fingers the hubs are not rusted into the knuckle too bad. That's usually the hardest part for most. You have several methods to solve it.



Dave

 

[BK]

Tnx Dave.

While my Rotors were on order, I read some other good reviews about the Napa drilled/slotted rotors, and others that did find they were made in the USA.

I initially didn't consider them cause I'm not a big fan of drilled for the street. They have to be done right not to crack at the drilled holes. It seems from my other posting/reviews I read, as you, others have done well with them.

Well I got 80K of hard driving out of the stock Rotors. If it wasn't for the one pad going metal on metal, I'd not be changing out the rotors.
Same as you, hard driving, lots of towing (on and off road), lots of around down congested driving. I eat front pads in less than 20K miles. Always need to adjust up the rear shoes to keep things straight, 2-3 a year (hence why I'm really considering the rear disk brake conversion).

My rotors are due in today.
Saturday during the storm I can put the bearings / rotors / wheel studs together.
Seems Sunday it will clear up here. So hope to get started no later than Sunday on ripping stuff out.

 

[BK]

All the parts were at my garage by last night...
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Went in the shop today during the rains and married the rotors to the hub bearings, inserted studs and pulled them through so they are basically seated and the rotor doesn't rattle on the hub bearing.

When the rain stopped. Went out and pulled the Calibers from both sides and inspected them. I need calipers, one boot is slit. I've never had good luck rebuilding them, so I'll get new ones in.

The socket from quad4x4 worked perfect. My 1/2 impact gun is good for about 600ft/lbs, and the axle nut came off with little struggle.

Used a 1/2 14mm 12pt socket, and with putting some of my weight into it, all the knuckle to bearing bolts came out, left them 1/2 in/out to support the bearing when it cracks loose... sooner or later... LOL...

Strapped up the axle, used a ratching tie down strap looped around the axle tube and between the ujoints to keep the axles from wanting to follow the hub bearing out of the truck. And used my massive 75lbs working load tiewraps to just provide some support on the axle shafts so they don't drop, when I finally break the bearings loose... sooner or later..... yea LOL again... things going to easy to this point. .

Drive's side...
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Pass side...
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So cleaned up a bit.
Using one of my cheap 3/8 impact extensions and some sacraficial 14mm 12pt 3/8 sockets I bought last night, I gave the power stearing method a about 6 tries. You can get a lot of pressure going there. But I certainly made some nice flights with the socket and impact extension..... But bearing hasn't moved.
Wife called me in for dinner, getting late and buggy. So called it a good day, and sprayed the heck out of everything again and closed up shop for the night.
Bugs are really bad lately and love eating me. . so new day tomorrow.

EDIT>>>>
The rains never came back, and I know if I didn't try again, I wouldn't be able to sleep.

So went back out - decided to put some rags under the Ujoints as well.
And went back to trying the power stearing method.
This time I worked against the C, and had cut the cheap0 6" 3/8 impact extension down to a size that would fit with just the 14mm socket on the one end, And with careful placement on the C, I got a pop when pushing on the lower front bolt, so went to the rear lower bolt, lined up on the C, and got it to move. Took the bolts out, banged it off.
Went to the passenger side, did the same thing , and in 10 minutes, the passenger side was off too.

Sprayed the splines up. left the resting on some paper towels .

Now I can sleep tonight. Just have to find calibers tomorrow, clean everything up, and start to put stuff back together again.

 

[Dave M]

ALL Right! Good job! The rest should be easy. With the new caliper you will have to add bleeding the brakes. So I guess the straps held the axle from moving? That looks like a good idea. If I even need to change hubs I'll remember that.



I'm anxious to here your progress tomorrow.



Dave

 

[Dave M]

Here are some pics of my rotors when I did the front seals.

 

[BK]

The axles didn't move a bit. 1 strap was long enough to make it all the way around.
Just took up the slack + one or 2 extra clicks.

Late morning, just finished lunch, will go out and starting cleaning up the knuckles, dust plate and spacer. And get things back together.

I called my local NAPA this morning, they;ll have my calibers Tuesday morning.

I have a Vacula suction bleeding system and auto fill reservoir.
So the bleeding part is easy.
I gave up on the wife in the driver's seat and all the pump, pump, pump, hold... . was getting old.

 

[BK]

Got out at 1:30pm and started.

The floor jack, the one I have has a rubber pad that fits over the cup, which worked well to support the rotor / hub combo on edge. Easy to get it to the right height and marry up to the axle stub, push on and then get the bolts started.
It was a great 3rd hand and great at handling the bulk of the weight of the assembly.

The ratchet strap and tiewraps kept the stub from turning, which helped alignment, since it was one less moving target as I worked to line up the hub bearing/rotor.

I was done about 4pm, cleaned up the shop, and now just waiting for my calipers which are due in Tuesday morning.

 

[Dave M]

Great progress. Glad to see you didn't have all the horrible trouble others have had with the hubs. The rubber pad on jack pad to support the hub is a great idea along with strapping the axle to make installing the hub easier. I really fought them hubs for several hours when I did mine.



I also had trouble with the dually spacer nuts. It's a tight fit for any socket and torque wrench and the torque to 150 ft-lbs took a long time. I torqued in 3 stages and it took forever to connect/disconnect in that tight space.

I found, out of the 4 sockets I bought (7/8 inch or 22 mm), one narrow socket along with my first old craftsman 20-150 ft-lb clicker torque wrench I bought in 1977 had a narrow head to fit easier in that tight space. I don't know a better trick to installing them.



I have seen those jack pads on Summitt Racing so I'll invest in them next order.



I expect you won't have any problems with axle seal leaks.



Dave

 

[BK]

Dave, and Chris, and others, thanks for the help, input, and talking through the process, helped me think it out, making it easier.

Dave here's the jack, and removable rubber pad. . I've been through a few 3ton Craftsman jacks, and when the last one nearly killed me, and put a hole through my oil pan, I went and spent $$ on this beast, 2. 5x the cost of any of the craftsmans I bought before. It doesn't look it on the pix, but it dwarfs the Craftsman jacks.
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When the power steering method didn't work the 1st time, I started worrying about it.
That's what made me go back out last night and face the mosquito.
The hint with the ps trick is to work against the C... not any other part of the axle.
What's left of my 6" 3/8 impact extension and sacrificial 14mm 12pt.
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Dave, geez, yea, didn't think about the dually adapter... man, another whole big step to deal with. ouch.

 

[Dave M]

I'm wearing out another 31/2 ton craftsman jack. Where did you get that jack and brand and model? Looks like AFF (America Forge and Foundry) 35oSS 3 1/2 ton. Once the calipers are in then you are done... whew. I don't understand what the "C" is on the axle your referring too... I guess I'm stupid here.



It's been a long week for me still working on the truck. I had ordered a set of axle nut washers from Quad 4x4 (because I lost an axle nut washer) and then put them in this week and fought them dually spacers again. Tonight I replaced an outer tie rod on drivers side that was shot.



I got a bad death wobble this week on a bad section the road crew left that caused a drop in pavement before/after a bridge crossing. They haven't filled in what they dug out and I hit the drop going too fast. Thought I'd lost control of the truck. The guy tailgating behind me backed waaaay off. I was grabbing the steering wheel and breaking to slow done while trying to miss oncoming traffic. It took me by surprize for sure. I had to change my shorts after that one.



I've spent enough time under the front end for awhile.



Dave

 

[BK]

I bought the jack locally at Dynamite tools.
Milwaukee Tools Bosch Tools Makita Tools | Dynamite Tools
They are a local small tool distributor, they are finally improving their website. But it's missing lots of stuff.

The mfg of the jack. .
Automotive Shop Equipment - American Forge & Foundry, Inc. - About Us
Yes, your right on with the model number info. At Dynamite they call it the double pumper. . it has two pumps for faster and easier lifts, than the model below it.
It's not a quick up to chassis 1st pump, like the quick lift craftsmans I had but it's not bad, but it's the same throughout the lift, so over all a lot quicker than the craftsman that were slow with the load of the dodge on it.

The C, the part at the end of the axle tube that holds the ball joints, the part the axle shaft sticks out of.

I haven't experience the death wobble yet. I've been lucky I guess.
Geez, what a ride. Were you alone in the truck?
Was the tie rod the culprit?





It easily lifts the front end of the dodge in one shot, the craftsman felt like they were bending, and groaning, and just couldn't push them to do it safely.

 

[BK]

Some links for the jacks.
I bought it about 6 years ago, I paid about $350 for it, if my memory serves me correctly.

AFF catalog. .
http://www.affjaxx.com/pdf/2009_Catalog.pdf

asst links selling the jack. .
They say the shipping weight is 120 lbs or so.
It's a mother of a heavy jack, but it's not 120.
I had it up on end (on it's rear, front wheels up in the air) cleaning it one day cleaning after an oil mess got on it.
It feel and broke my toe through my (not steel) work boot.

AFF 350SS 3-1/2 Ton Floor Jack - Automotive, Shop & Garage Equipment

scroll down to find it on this page. .
Automotive floor jacks, hydraulic jacks, floor jacks from ASE

ADG 350SS

American Forge & Foundry | RAF-AFF-NEW-350SS | Model 350 Series Floor Jack - 3 1/2 Ton Capacity Double Pumper

American Forge 3-1/2 Ton Professional Heavy-Duty Double-Pumper Floor Jack

seems some of the places online are discounting it.
I probably paid MSRP at the time, the shop I bought it from, was never cheap, but they have most anything one needs. About the only place local like that in my area. But some things are worth it. If I had this jack in the 1st place , I wouldn't have gone through and oil pan job. Some times saving a few bucks, isn't really saving a few bucks.

 

[BK]

I was asked to post a few pix of some of the things I did, that came out of the hints, help from discussions above.

Worried about the axle shafts and seals in the tubes, I used a ratcheting tie-down strap to keep the axle shafts in place while fighting to get the bearings out. And for adding support of the axle to help protect the seals I used some rather large tywraps - just pulled them hand tight, but no too tight as to jam the axle upward into the seal. Secondary effect was that it kept the shafts from turning while trying to line up the rotor/hub-bearing assy during re-assembly.


Started on the front side of the axle passenger side.
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I first lined up the ujoints so the half nearest the axle tube presented a nice vertical slot for the strap to go through.
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Then through the ujoint, out the rear side of the passenger side,
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Between the upper and lower suspension links, under the CAD...
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Under the pumpkin, into the ujoint from the rear on the drivers side, between the suspension links... .
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Out the front side of the drivers side ujoint,
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Then meet with the hook end, and the the ratchet mechanizim infront of the pumpkin.
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I only tightened up the strap so the slack was out, then went around to make sure the strapped when through the center of the two ujoints and repositioned as needed on the casing of the C, so the strap went through the ujoints' centers. Then took up another couple of clicks.


With image limitations on a post, see next post... .

 

[BK]

Pushing out the Bearing... .
I'll add the I used PB blaster for nearly 3 days on the rear face of the knuckle and front axle nuts.
It wasn't till the night before I started this job that I blasted some of it between the rotor and dusts shield, dust shield and knuckle in hopes it would get into those areas.
I read about the power steering trick and at 1st got no where.
But I was working against parts / structures on the axle housing, things were just too long and angles odd. Under pressure, the "tools" were just thrown with great force across the yard.

This started as a straight impact 3/8s 6" extension, and was bent in the process.
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I bought some sacrificial 14mm 12pt 3/8 sockets from HD at $2. 50 a piece - to use on the "bolt end". While I did crack the 1st one, during some of the 1st tries, the cracked one held up fine during the rest of the pressing out process.

( Editorial :

I saw another thread on here later, where someone removed one of the 4 bolts, replaced it with a much longer bolt, and used that instead of the socket/extension.

And to protect the Ujoint from an accident, the TDR member, used a large impact socket on the end that goes against the C. With what I did below, if that extenston moves into the pocket where the Ujoint is, could cause a problem. I guess I could have just used a socket on the end going on the C as well to protect things.
Found here.....
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...t-hub-bearing-assembly-brand.html#post1971998)


Finally found best to cut it to length, and work against the inside of the C. I only needed to work the lower front and rear bolts. When it first gives, there's a pop. Drivers side was much louder than the passenger side. It also didn't just pop out, but once it was loose, it did bang out pretty easily.

1) soaked all areas with PB blaster.
2) back out all 4 of the bolts half way.
3) starting with the lower back bolt (for me), put the "tool" in place, by hand you can rotate the rotor/hub/knuckle assembly to add pressure to hold the "tool" in place.
4) with the truck running, turn the wheel in the proper direction to add pressure. A couple of tugs of the wheel,, and pop.
5) straighten wheel, move the "tool" to the front lower bolt, turn the rotor/hub/knunckl by hand to get tool wedged in to the C.
6) using power steering, move wheel to add pressure , a couple of tugs of the steering wheel and you should see the hub assembly moving in the knuckle.
7) turn truck off , put jack under the rotor (Rubber cup on jack), remove the 4 bolts, only using the jack to support the weight of the hub assembly, pull off, (walk off) (us hammer as you see fit) to get the hub assembly off the rest of the way.

(Again, I took these pix by request, after the job was done... )

Drivers side rear lower knuckle - hub bearing bolt. view from below, looking at rear part of drivers side C.
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Jack supporting the rotor / hub bearing assembly on and off... .

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I also used the same height of the jack to act as a 3rd hand to support the weight of the rotor / hub bearing assy while I put it back together again. Really helped in being able to take ones time in lining the shaft up, the splines, and keep an eye on the two rear bolts (don't put in the two front bolts when 1st trying to align the assembly), spacer and dust shield. The rotor walked fine, and once things seemed lined up, only need to lift it a fraction of an inch off the pad to shove into place, and feed the 2 rear bolts in by hand.

 

[Dave M]

Great write-up and good pics. That's the way to do the hubs to prevent damage to front axle seals.



Good job, Bob.



Dave

 

[BK]

Tnx Dave.....

 

[BK]

Well finished it up tonight with the napa rotors, bleed the entire system out and flushed through it new DOT4+ (5. 1) and inspected rear brakes, and then adjusted them up.

The bedded in the front pads, and broke in the rotors per directions.

It never stopped this good when it was new in 99.

Not even a hint of a pull.

 

[CReinhardt]

Thanks a ton Bob and Dave and thanks for taking the time to show us exactly how you removed the hub/rotor assy. Bob. I tried the power steering method today to no avail. I squirted the heck out of it with penetrating oil and will try again tomorrow. Have you heard of anyone trying to remove the hub with a gear puller? I am planning on giving that a try tomorrow if my second shot at the power steering method does not work. I used a craftsmen 14mm and a 4 inch craftsman 1/2" extension on all 4 bolts and tweeked pretty hard on the steering and no such luck. Sorry if it seems like I'm hijacking the thread but it seems like you guys have pretty much winded down.