Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) front seal depth setting?

[JMauro]

when i replaced the front seal the crank snout was worn pretty bad. being i had a heck of a time getting the seal and cover gasket figured the chance of finding a speedy sleeve was nil. one thing i did notice was the new seal had a installation ring to set the depth i assume to make room for the black rubber (dust shield?) for the seal. it looks like this tool set the seal deeper than the wear marks so it should be riding on fresh steel. keeping my fingers crossed no leaks so far. any input on this is appreaciated.

 

[DSiemens]

Cummins carries a speedi-sleeve. Don't have a part number handy, but the sleeve came with a new crank seal.



Dan

 

[Andy Redmond]

Moving the seal a little is fine if it gets you enough new smooth lip area.



Cummins #3802820 front cover seal and sleeve kit 12v, less than $100. It has a heavy bronze sleeve.



Don't waste your time with the thin "national" type readi-sleeve, it doesn't have enough surface area. After this is used you will continue to use the larger id seal in future seal changes (that comes with the seal and sleeve).



You will also need this sleeve installer.



3824500 sleeve installer about $300 from Cummins. You might pm my friend the machinist, "BoomerII. " He made my sleeve installer for much less than this, but I'd let him quote prices since its his material and time.



Anything he does is perfecto!

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I think I might need to sleeve the crank in my '98...



I replaced the seal on Monday and it's already leaking...

Maybe I just damaged the seal when I installed the cover... I don't know... I had a heck of a time doing the job - had to rush to avoid getting rained on.



Can anyone explain why a $300 tool is needed to install a sleeve? I have never had to use a sleeve like this before...



I'm even considering trying to just put another seal in there... without taking the cover off, etc. Some people have been able to do this... some have had zero success at all trying to do it...



Matt

 

[Deezul1]

The local Cummins shop here does a lot of agriculture type stuff and told me the dust seal is for that type application and the toss em out when working on trucks. I was told that seal depth wasnt critical as long as it wasnt too deep in the cover. I asked the shop manager if you could use the front pulley to press the seal into the cover by tightning the pulley bolts and he said that should work fine.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I'm not going to use that dust seal the next time around...



I'm gonna try to just press the seal in with the harmonic balancer/crank pully... wish me luck.



I'm going to use 1-roll of paper towels and a can of Brakleen to clean the crank... and I'm going to spin the engine over a couple of times with the seal installed to let that $#@! teflon seat itself, etc.



Thanks for the info...



Matt

 

[BPINE]

I was told by Cummins that the seal should be installed dry, that is right no lube on the crank or seal. Has anyone ever heard of that or done it that way?

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The seal says right on it "Install DRY"... I've only done 3 or 4 seals over the years... . it figures that my own truck would give me the most trouble.



Matt

 

[JGheen]

Originally posted by BPINE

I was told by Cummins that the seal should be installed dry, that is right no lube on the crank or seal. Has anyone ever heard of that or done it that way?

Always install teflon seals dry or it will basically defeat the purpose of what teflon does to seal the surface.

 

[Deezul1]

I have done 5 of them, all dry, no leaks so far.

 

[BV]

resealed mine while tabbing the dowel pin and used the rubber dust shield. Not leaks yet but the $300 seal install tool might have helped with the frustration factor

 

[DF5152]

anyone have a picture of w $300 seal tool?

 

[Bob4x4]

It is not a seal tool but an installer for the wear sleeve



Bob

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I picked up another seal today - I'm gonna give it another go this afternoon.



Matt

 

[bmoeller]

Good luck. Mine was a royal PITA, also. Kept wanting to cock sideways. Wouldn't go in straight. Fought with it for almost 2hrs. Other than that, killing the KDP went well.



I did use the dust seal on mine. So far, no leaks.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I went and bought the seal - (... did I mention how much I love living in a city with at least 4 Cummins parts counters?!) and took her all apart.



The seal itself was dry, but the little lip in the front cover where the seal goes had a few drops of oil on it. So - I cleaned everything up and ran it with the harmonic balancer off... I stared at the crank/seal like a monkey trying to do a math problem and it didn't leak a drop in 5 minutes. I took it for a 5 mile drive and the drops of oil were back.



I brought it home - went in to eat dinner - came back out at dusk with a flashlight. I started poking around up top - looking at the cover and BAM!... there it was... a frikken loose bolt underneath the fan hub - practically ready to fall out of the truck if the fan hub bracket wasn't keeping it in place.



You know how there's a couple of different length bolts that hold the cover on? Well, I put one or two of them in the wrong holes and had to switch them out... I must have forgotten to tighten that one bolt beyond starting it with my fingers.



So - the fan/belt/hub came off again... cleaned everything up... retorqued all the cover bolts and slapped it all together. Took it for a ride and it has been dry ever since.



What I saw when I took the hub off was a tiny trail of oil coming from where the cover was loose... it had dripped straight down behind the harmonic balancer - on top of the lip where the seal is... and collected on the bottom of the lip - making it look like the seal was leaking. I guess at idle... there wasn't enough oil spashing around to make it leak enough for me to notice while I was under there watching it with the harmonic balancer off. You literally could not see where the leak was until you took the fan hub off...



I now have a spare front crank seal... . good thing I didn't try to take it out as it wasn't the problem.



Live and learn... :-laf



Matt

 

[BPINE]

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset

The seal says right on it "Install DRY"... I've only done 3 or 4 seals over the years... . it figures that my own truck would give me the most trouble.



Matt

I guess I need to slow down and read, are the rear mains the same as well?

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Anyone have an update or source for the front crankshaft repair sleeve installer? I need that tool right about now.



My '98 has been leaking. I got it all tore down and am ready to pull the front cover to do the seal again. I guess I was on borrowed time with a crank that had an imperfect sealing surface.



On edit: I believe the rear main is a dry install as well. I've only done 1 of them... and it was on my '94 many moons ago.



Matt

 

[SRadke]

Rear mains are a dry install and are much easier to get started in the hole than the fronts are. Can't help with the sleeve, I've never needed one.



-Scott

 

[Andy Redmond]

Matt:



The Cummins tool (wear sleeve installers) for either end are really pricey from Cummins. $250 and $275 (front and rear).



I am friends with a great machinist/welder, Mike Ames (Ames Welding/Slick Rock Enterprises, Lewisville, TX). He's very fussy and I've done work on his 97 3500 4x4. He has a really cool custom Jeep that Jeep's with in Utah.



He made the sleeve installers for me, as we swap out labor for truck repairs, parts and him making me goodies!



Send him a PM, he's Boomer II . No sure of his price as we've usually bartered for things, but give him a shout.



Andy