Off Roading Front Sway Bar Disconnects

[DonCurley]

For my smaller 4x4 vehicles over the years (mostly Jeeps), I have always had some form of front sway bar disconnects to allow for more suspension flex and articulation when off-road. With my '07 3500, I would like to do the same thing. However, after looking high and low on the Internet, I have basically struck out. I found a couple of custom shop type places that in fact made some manual quick-connect/disconnect units that took the place of factory end links, but they were too small for the rather beefy front sway bar set up on a 3500. I have also been looking at adapting sway bar disconnects that were designed for other vehicles, but haven't come up with anything that is a close enough match.



I realize I could get under there and unbolt my sway bar end links to get the same effect, however, I wanted something that was more user-friendly and easy to reconnect once I am back on-highway. Anyway, if anyone has any potential sources for manual sway bar disconnects (or has any other ideas), I would sure appreciate hearing about them.



Thanks,

Don

 

[ENafziger]

Someone here retrofitted a set of JKS sway bar end links, but I don't know if they were offered for our trucks, or modified to fit.

JKS Manufacturing: Swaybar Components

--Eric

 

[Bob4x4]

For my smaller 4x4 vehicles over the years (mostly Jeeps), I have always had some form of front sway bar disconnects to allow for more suspension flex and articulation when off-road. With my '07 3500, I would like to do the same thing. However, after looking high and low on the Internet, I have basically struck out. I found a couple of custom shop type places that in fact made some manual quick-connect/disconnect units that took the place of factory end links, but they were too small for the rather beefy front sway bar set up on a 3500. I have also been looking at adapting sway bar disconnects that were designed for other vehicles, but haven't come up with anything that is a close enough match.



I realize I could get under there and unbolt my sway bar end links to get the same effect, however, I wanted something that was more user-friendly and easy to reconnect once I am back on-highway. Anyway, if anyone has any potential sources for manual sway bar disconnects (or has any other ideas), I would sure appreciate hearing about them.



Thanks,

Don

I think your stock suspension will limit you articulation at least as much as the front swaybar.

I am running suspension from Carli,that allows me a ton of articulation with out the disco's. I can run the 37" toyo mt's with out any trimming of sheetmetal yet the ride height has only been increased by a few inches.

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I am able to run high speed in the dirt or do the rock crawling thing with this set-up and still tow the trailer sitting level thanks to the long travel airbags



Bob

 

[DKupec]

How about the front sway bar from a Power Wagon?

 

[Bob4x4]

How about the front sway bar from a Power Wagon?

That is not a cost effective solution... ... ... ... ... .....



Bob

 

[Bob4x4]

:-laf That is an all wheel drive Lexus,it was borrowed from the guys Dad... ..... The Dad did not know it was headed out to Mike's Sky Ranch for the Baja 500. I had to park like that because I was pulling the stuck or hydro-locked racers out of the water crossing through out the race.

This was pulling out 2 class 7's hooked in tandem



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This was the water crossing

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Bob

 

[DonCurley]

Someone here retrofitted a set of JKS sway bar end links, but I don't know if they were offered for our trucks, or modified to fit.



JKS Manufacturing: Swaybar Components



--Eric

Eric ... thanks for the link and I will definitely check JKS out.

 

[DonCurley]

I think your stock suspension will limit you articulation at least as much as the front swaybar.

I am running suspension from Carli,that allows me a ton of articulation with out the disco's. I can run the 37" toyo mt's with out any trimming of sheetmetal yet the ride height has only been increased by a few inches.



I am able to run high speed in the dirt or do the rock crawling thing with this set-up and still tow the trailer sitting level thanks to the long travel airbags



Bob

Bob,



I have a somewhat complex issue to deal with. As background, we got a slide-in truck camper last year, and we first tried to use it with an '07 Power Wagon. Really bad idea. Now I realize that the factory suspension in a PW is not as supple and flexy as a KORE or Carli suspension, but I would still make the case that it is more like those than a factory 3500 suspension. The trouble was that even though our camper is a lighter-weight pop-up type with a lower center of gravity than a large hard-sided camper, the more off-road tuned suspension in the PW was too light-duty to handle the weight of the camper (even with a set of air bags). The high stance of the PW was also no good in terms of stability. Long story short, we ended up trading in the PW for an '07 3500. The good news is that we now have a very stable platform with plenty of load carrying capacity that the PW lacked for camper hauling purposes, however, since we do a lot of off-road camping with our rig, I would like to get a bit more articulation, so the suspension is doing more of the "work", instead of getting so much side-to-side rolling from the body and camper rocking the entire rig.



What I don't want to do is to go too far in turning my 3500 suspension into a PW type suspension, or I will be back in the same boat again with an overall lack of stability and load carrying capacity. I also don't want to lift our truck to any substantial degree, as this just aggravates the COG issues (which the camper further magnifies). As it is, I have plenty of room in the wheel wells for my 35" Toyo Open Country M/T's, so I really don't want to go much higher (if at all).



You have a very nice looking rig, and I think the Carli (or similar) suspension will definitely work with towing a trailer as you indicate, but it's a completely different ballpark when you are in essence putting a trailer's worth of weight directly in your truck's bed (which is what I have to deal with).



I know that I will likely have to deal with my rather stiff suspension that was engineered more for load carrying than flex. And you may well be right that my stock front suspension will be as much of a limiting factor to more articulation as my sway bar is, but I would at least like to attempt some disconnects to see if I can gain just a bit more flex by freeing up the sway bar. I also have to watch my pocketbook (and marital status) as I really don't have the funds to do a complete redo on my 3500's suspension at this time.



Thanks,

Don

 

[DonCurley]

How about the front sway bar from a Power Wagon?

That is not a cost effective solution... ... ... ... ... .....



Bob

It's not only not cost effective, it is essentially impossible. I already investigated this approach some time back and there are too many controls and feedbacks in the Power Wagon system to adapt to a 3500 (and this was based on the considered opinion of more than one Dodge service tech).

 

[Tinman]

You might could try some mini-packs in stead of a whole new leaf spring set. There are not supposed to decrease load capacity. Also, have you looked into Lorenz dual purpose leafs? A combination of the above with some bags may work well.



As far as the PW sway bar disconnect; Would it be possible to use the hardware (disconnect apparatus) and just use a direct wiring circuit to activate it? That would skip the problems with the Dodge software/ECM circuitry your tech was worried about. Just a thought.

 

[DonCurley]

You might could try some mini-packs in stead of a whole new leaf spring set. There are not supposed to decrease load capacity. Also, have you looked into Lorenz dual purpose leafs? A combination of the above with some bags may work well.



As far as the PW sway bar disconnect; Would it be possible to use the hardware (disconnect apparatus) and just use a direct wiring circuit to activate it? That would skip the problems with the Dodge software/ECM circuitry your tech was worried about. Just a thought.

Tinman,



In terms of the Power Wagon sway bar system, that was exactly my idea as well. However, one of the Dodge techs indicated that there is a "final drive control module" that is an integrated part of the PW sway bar disconnect system. Apparently, there is no engage/disengage wire to simply splice into to make this work in a straightforward manner. This final drive control module is not serviceable, and has no pertinent information referenced to it in the FSM as to the controls for the disco/reconnect functions. It is apparently controlled by the can bus and a long list of sensors (with inputs required for wheel speed, transfer case position sensor, locker switch input, etc. ). Bottom-line, there are a lot of parts needed that add up to a substantial chunk of change, and without some reasonable hope that something like this could be wired up to successfully work in something other than a PW, it unfortunately seems like a dead end that's not worth trying IMO.



Don

 

[Bob4x4]

I owned a 4wheel poptop camper for 15 years so I know exactly what you are dealing with. My current set up would work awesome for that application,but it was not cheap. There are Quite a few Carli equipped camper haulers out there. I would still be carrying a pop top but my wife has gotten to the point where she likes more room,so it's a trailer or I go by myself.

With the stock front springs you have so little compression travel,there can be no comfort off road.



Bob

 

[Regcabguy]

Carli!

Sage Carli equipped my friend's '07 standard cab,4wd,2500,with chassis mounted popup,with his 2. 5 performance setup. They custom valved the shocks and added his hydraulic bumpstops. I can say from experience riding in it that it's a joy to ride in on the Baja highways with near sports car handling. Offroad a soft,compliant ride with bookoo spring travel results in a smooth safe ride in a 12,000# truck. Carli's long travel airbags sealed the deal also. Sage and Baja Mike at the shop worked wonders on this rig. Consult with Sage and they'll dial you in.

 

[JDerbedrossian]

... ... ... ... ... ... .....

 

[DonCurley]

I owned a 4wheel poptop camper for 15 years so I know exactly what you are dealing with. My current set up would work awesome for that application,but it was not cheap. There are Quite a few Carli equipped camper haulers out there. I would still be carrying a pop top but my wife has gotten to the point where she likes more room,so it's a trailer or I go by myself.
With the stock front springs you have so little compression travel,there can be no comfort off road.

Bob

Sage Carli equipped my friend's '07 standard cab,4wd,2500,with chassis mounted popup,with his 2. 5 performance setup. They custom valved the shocks and added his hydraulic bumpstops. I can say from experience riding in it that it's a joy to ride in on the Baja highways with near sports car handling. Offroad a soft,compliant ride with bookoo spring travel results in a smooth safe ride in a 10,000# truck. Carli's long travel airbags sealed the deal also. Sage and Baja Mike at the shop worked wonders on this rig. Consult with Sage and they'll dial you in.

I would love to do a Carli or KORE job on my stock suspension, but after the cost of a new camper and Dodge 3500 last year (along with getting laid-off in December, and then recently getting into an expensive bumper/winch purchase when I incorrectly thought I had a new job nailed-down), I just can't afford to go that route ... at least not any time soon.

Another potential problem is that my Outfitter Apex is fully loaded with every imaginable option, so even though it is a pop-up, it is not a light-weight pop-up. (It's probably close to 3000 lbs fully loaded). So I think for now, I am just going to have to attempt a few incremental changes to my stock suspension.

Anyway, here are some shots of my rig ...

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Don

 

[DonCurley]

... ... ... ... ... ... ..... #ad

Nice looking rig. What camper is that?

 

[Bob4x4]

That is a Carli equipped truck... ... ... ... ..... Don't remember the brand camper.

 

[Regcabguy]

Those are some beautiful photos you guys took. Nice looking rigs. Hopefully full employment is on the way.

 

[sam-eye-am]

Same questions

Don,



I have seen your posts on RV.net and outfitters forum too. I also have an 07 3500 with an 07 Apex 8... looks like you may have more than one solar panel? I have the roof A/C and one 110W panel... . so looks like we are dealing with about the same weight issues.



I have been meaning to ask what you have done suspension wise to make the WRT not as much of a white knuckle experience. Have you come up with anything?



Right now, I have the firestone bags and RS900Xls as well. The camper seems to throw the truck around so much, I just threw on a rear swaybar for highway driving to see if that helps... I'll find out next week (either heading to the Tahoe area or St George). The little bit of off highway travel I have done with the camper on the truck wasn't necessarily enjoyable with as much side to side sway as I was having.



So, I am curious to see if you have come across anything that has helped? Also, your 35" MTs... I presume you put a leveling kit in up front? How did that effect the handling of the truck with raising the center of gravity even higher? Did you notice any appreciable drop in fuel economy on the highway?



And, one last question... are those stock wheels? They look so, but not quite sure. I have been wondering if an 18" wheel would be a good combo... still some sidewall for cushion and possible air down in sand, but less sidewall flex than the 17"..... but not as limiting as the 19. 5s.



Thanks,

Sam

 

[DonCurley]

Sam,

I have two solar panels on the roof of my Apex 8 for 220 watts total along with a Blue Sky Solar Boost 2000E MPPT controller, a Xantrex ProSine 2000 watt inverter/converter/charger, and two 6-volt Trojan T-145 batteries. I am also pretty loaded in terms of being fully optioned with just about every bell & whistle Outfitter offered for the Apex 8, so my overall dry and loaded weight is no doubt up there even for a pop-up style camper.

For stability considerations, please keep in mind that we first started with an '07 Dodge Power Wagon. I have previously written a lot about that unfortunate event, however, long story short ... it was a major mistake. Even with Firestone Ride-Rite air bags, the stability was so bad (especially on-highway), that just driving on an Interstate with our Apex 8 on board made you feel like your life was passing before you. The ride height was too high for vertical COG considerations, and the off-road tuned (aka "weak") springs were simply not up to the task of adequately supporting the weight of even a pop-up camper.

When we traded in the Power Wagon for the 3500, it was a night and day comparison in terms of substantially increased stability and load carrying capacity. Maybe it's because we started with such an unstable platform to begin with, but the change was so dramatic in the positive direction that I would be hard pressed to complain about it either for on-highway or off-road use. The air bags did get transferred over from the Power Wagon, as well as the 17" forged aluminum wheels with a set of load range E 35x12. 50R17 Toyo Open Country M/T tires. In terms of the wheels, I don't know if it is actually true or not, but I have heard from more than one source that the Power Wagon wheels I have are slightly different from the look-alike 17" aluminum wheels on the 3500, in that the bead area of the rims have an improved bead-retaining design for aired-down tires for off-road use.

Suspension-wise, I didn't do anything before the White Rim Trail trip other than get a set of Rancho RS9000XL shocks, and to install the full array of skid plates that a Power Wagon has. Since the WRT trip in March, I had a Buckstop Baja front bumper and Warn 16. 5ti winch installed, along with a 2. 5" Tuff Country EZ-Ride leveling kit (to help counteract the resultant front-end sag from the 300+ lbs hanging off the front with the new bumper & winch combo). I have also installed a Defiant/RadFlo steering stabilizer, along with a Defiant steering box sector arm support assembly. By the way, I did not need the leveling kit for the 35" Toyo tires ... there was plenty of wheel well clearance as-is.

I am not going to blow the smoke some do by saying that with their Ford F350's, they don't even feel their Apex campers back there. I certainly know my camper is indeed "back there", but I honestly do not feel the need for a rear sway bar. While it would be OK for on-highway use, I do not want a sway bar back there for off-road operations, as it would excessively tie-down the rear suspension IMO (which is pretty stiff already in the 3500, along with the air bags). Perhaps it wouldn't be a big deal if you didn't do too much in the way of more rugged or challenging off-road trails. As it is, I have been looking for a way to disco my front sway bar to get a bit more front end articulation for rougher off-road stuff.

By the way, hanging that 300+ lbs worth of bumper/winch off my front end and gaining a net 1-1/4" increase in front-end ride height did adversely affect my front end handling with more bouncing around and less precise steering. However when I installed the Defiant/Radflo steering stabilizer and steering box sector shaft support kit, that counteracted most of those issues. However, I will still likely go with a set of higher spring rate front coil springs at some point (and ditch the leveling kit spacers).

I am not sure why you are having the stability issues you describe with your rig, especially since our respective set-ups seem to be essentially equivalent. I do agree that going with a set of 18" wheels (instead of 17 " rims) with 35" load range E tires will lessen the side wall height and will therefore stiffen up your ride. Anyway, let me know how your new rear sway bar works out for you.

Good luck,
Don

P. S. We did the Alpine Loop (Engineer Pass and Cinnamon Pass) along with Ophir Pass in the San Juan Mountains in southwestern Colorado last month, which was more challenging than the WRT in many places. I am in the midst of writing that trip report up.