Froze solid it was 6 above zero

[bkaiser]

I agree completely with cuda6pack - I buy all of my fuel from a truck stop 4 miles from home. I run Howes in the winter. Last year - never had a problem. This year - I gelled. Went and complained - turned out they bought two truck loads of 'refinery winterized' fuel, didn't add their usual additives and then the temps dropped from 15 above to 10 below. My truck had sat for about two days, it was plugged in and started fine. Ran for about five minutes. A big shot of Howes, 5 gallons of fresh fuel and a few hours later I was fine. That was two weeks ago. Today it quit on the road. I hadn't changed the fuel filter yet (it's been too damn cold!), but now I know I can change it in 10 minutes on the side of the road (always carry a filter and tools). Once the filter was changed, it ran fine.



Lesson learned - If it gels, change the filter.

 

[DocDetonancour]

for T in Helena?

Are you plugging the rig in in those cold conditions? Thanks, Doc

 

[BDuffy]

If the fuel you get is winterized and this still happens you should check the filter and the hearter in the filter it has been -7 in N. Y. and still no problems with mine

 

[MOConnor]

Ok thanks to all of you guys out there. I have been using Stanadyne performance formula since my first post on this subject and have not had any more problems. I got a case of the stuff I paid 60. 00 bucks for 12 bottles and should get 24 tanks out of the 12... ... Thanks Mike

 

[Jeremiah]

Winter gelling issues

There definitely is something else going on when a 3rd gen. Dodge turbo-diesel won't start at 0 degrees F. For two winters in a row mine has started at 20 below, although I plug it in at 20 above just to keep the oil warm and the engine happy. A friend of mine leaves his truck outside at 30 below, never plugs it in, and swears it starts every time.

 

[Ncostello]

I pretty much found out what my diesel will do with the highly technical Mason Jar method. Using fuel obtained in October, I placed my jar of fuel outside last night for the expected -10 temps. Again no additives were added by me. I still dont know if the station added anything by October. I know they do... I just dont know when.



At 10 degrees it appears fine with a slight hint of more "thickness". It still flows and splashes around great but appears slightly less liquid than it did in October.



At 0 degrees it was beginning to show particulate when held up to a light. Still flowing OK in the jar... just some wax albeit barely visible.



At -13 this morning... the color had got lighter and the fluid much thicker. Plus as you splashed it around... it would stick to the jar sides like icy slush. The stuff was at its limit I believe. I brought it in to put a few drops of Performance Formula in it and see what that'll do me tonight. Supposed to be just as cold again.

 

[rbattelle]

Originally posted by Ncostello

I pretty much found out what my diesel will do with the highly technical Mason Jar method. Using fuel obtained in October, I placed my jar of fuel outside last night for the expected -10 temps. Again no additives were added by me. I still dont know if the station added anything by October. I know they do... I just dont know when.



At 10 degrees it appears fine with a slight hint of more "thickness". It still flows and splashes around great but appears slightly less liquid than it did in October.



At 0 degrees it was beginning to show particulate when held up to a light. Still flowing OK in the jar... just some wax albeit barely visible.



At -13 this morning... the color had got lighter and the fluid much thicker. Plus as you splashed it around... it would stick to the jar sides like icy slush. The stuff was at its limit I believe. I brought it in to put a few drops of Performance Formula in it and see what that'll do me tonight. Supposed to be just as cold again.

This is a great experiment. What would also be cool would be to get a few jars of diesel. One with no additives (control), one with Stanadyne, one with PS, one with whatever... And see which one does the best.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by rbattelle

This is a great experiment. What would also be cool would be to get a few jars of diesel. One with no additives (control), one with Stanadyne, one with PS, one with whatever... And see which one does the best.

I think I smell one of the best experiments ever coming on! Not too scientific but highly reliable and without the usual scientific BS we lay people have to listen to. But keep in mind that diesel fuel in a tank is warmer because of its volumn and also because it's in a closed container, more or less. It would have to sit out in the cold a while in order to come down to ambient temperature.

 

[bmoeller]

Cold air blowing under the truck while it is moving has an effect on it also.



Yesterday it was 0* out w/ the wind blowing. Sitting still, the 4430 we had on the grain-vac had no trouble. Later, we drove it back home, about 6 miles, and when it got in the yard it died. About half of the fuel in the tank was blended highway fuel. Gelled up in that short amount of time. Had to get some Power Service 911 to get it going again.

 

[barbwire]

Ncostello, we await your test results

And, thank you for taking the time.

 

[Ncostello]

I brought that very, very cold jar of diesel on the back porch at around 6:30am immediately after checking it and reporting my earlier findings. Reason was because the weather update at that time said the low tonight was going to be 5 degrees... which is considerably warmer than -13. I knew 5 wouldn't produce ideal test conditions.



The back porch isn't heated so it was still pretty cold. My breath would instantly freeze on the jar surface. I added a half capful of room temperature Stanadyne Performance Formula to the very waxy diesel and mixed it around real good for about 2 minutes. The results were amazing. The solution quickly went back to its original color and the wax particles began to break up... . then disappear totally. The fluid was still thick looking like some 3-in-1 light oil on a hot summer day. I kept mixing it until it finally started to appear somewhat back to what it looks like at 10 degrees without additive. Note that the fuel and jar were still very cold. I had to wear my mechanic gloves to keep my hands from sticking to the jar.



I quickly put the jar back outside where the temps were still around -10 for about 2 hours. It never even hinted at looking like it did before the Stanadyne. It remained crystal clear and looked fine for use in an engine. The temps continued to go up a little over time.



During the day I drained some fuel from my prefilter drain and put it in a jar. This is fresh fuel with the proper ratio of Stanadyne. A half capful in the earlier sample (about 12 oz diesel) was more than likely too "strong" of a ratio to examine. My tank fuel should be less concentrated so I figure I better test as I run it too.



One note: The October diesel, over time, turned a orange color. The new stuff looks like Mountain Dew... . much lighter in tint.



Lesson: If you dont add Stanadyne, add something. I'll never depend solely on winterized fuel. And dont wait till its too late. Figure on using it starting in November and keep it up till Spring. Mix it during fillup and keep the ratio proper. I could see where adding it too late wouldn't help a bit if your stranded. The stuff seems to "do the trick" in unscientific terms.



PS: I drained the fuel from my truck while it was still below zero this morning. With the proper amount of Stanadyne it came right out and looked clear and fluid. It was definately at ambient temps as the truck hasn't been ran in two or three days while sitting in the record setting low temps (daily record for our area). The tank was also full so there was some volume there.

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by bmoeller

Cold air blowing under the truck while it is moving has an effect on it also.

It shouldn't have any effect. The wind does not cool the fuel in the tank.

 

[Dean Upson]

The cold wind would cool the tank itself and transfer the the cold to the fuel (convection?). The plastic tanks would not transfer nearly as much cold as the old metal tanks did, condensation was a real problem in them and it was a good idea to keep them full to help keep the moisture out, especially in vehicles or storage tanks kept out in the weather.



Dean

 

[MMiller]

Been around a lot of stuff that will set in one place and run flawlessly. Take it out on the road on a cold windy day and have it run good for a while then start to run out of power and almost die to the fuel gelling. Pull over and let it set and idle and it comes out of it. I very definitly belive that while moving down the road at 60 mph into a cold wind can cause problems. That is why there is a wind chill. Cold air by it self is cold, but add wind or make the truck drive through the cold air makes it ALOT colder.



Just my $. 02 and things learned in my life around diesels.



I also agree with Ncostello, when it gets cold a little additive is cheap insurance! It ain't worth the risk with a cab full of young/old family members along side the road when its cold!!

When the truck has to go down the road in bad weather, make sure its ready!



Michael

 

[Blakers]

Wind chill is caused by the evaporation of moisture from your body. It does not effect machinery.



If the fuel in the tank is 10° F and the air outside is 10° F, there is no differential, so the 10° outside air cannot cool the fuel in the tank.



I myself have experienced jelling of the old red fuel oil at -20° F. My old Benz would idle and run down the road real slow, but as soon as I tried to go faster and put it under more load the engine would quit. It would start right up again and idle ok. I don't believe this was caused by wind chill. My theory is the fuel was jelling in the lines - most likely starting from the outside of the fuel line and working its way in, thereby reducing the diameter of the fuel line, reducing flow to the point where the engine could not run under load.



I may be full of condensed milk, as my Gramps used to say, on this theory, but I am sure wind chill does not effect the temperature of objects or fuels.



Blake

 

[rbattelle]

Blakers is correct on this: wind chill is a human-thing. Check out any thermodynamics text... there are no allowances for "wind chill".



However, increased air flow over an object like a fuel tank will dissipate any heat in that object that much faster. Sit on the side of the road where there's no wind hitting your tank, and heat from the cab, exhaust, engine, etc. will raise the fuel temperature in the tank. When you start moving and blowing air all over the tank, the cooling effect of that wind forcing the tank to ambient temperature will overcome heat transfer from those other warm parts: fuel temp. drops to ambient, and you gel up.

 

[barbwire]

Blakers, I beg to differ

What happens when wind blows through a radiator?? It cools the fluid inside it , right? No fluid is evaporated, or we would be adding fluid constantly. My guess is, that you may be right, I am probably comparing apples to oranges. But I also think that wind would have a tendency to cool the fuel, in the tank, a lot faster than sitting still.

 

[barbwire]

Rbattelle, you are a lot faster typer than I

I did'nt see your response when I had started typing

 

[Ncostello]

It will cool the fuel in the tank... . IF the fuel in the tank is warmer than the outside temperature. But it cannot go lower than outside ambient temperature. Its heat transfer through the tank wall.



Wind or blowing air across a tank will speed the transfer of heat until the outside air and fuel in the tank are at the same temperature... equilibrium.



Perhaps when the moisture in the diesel tank goes through the constricted lines it becomes more susceptable to freezing up since its not floating around anymore with a huge quantity of diesel.



EDIT: All ya all type faster than me

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by barbwire

What happens when wind blows through a radiator?? It cools the fluid inside it , right?

Correct. But the reason it cools the liquid in the radiator is because there is a temperature differential between the liquid and the air passing through. If the liquid were the at a lower temperature than the air, heat would transfer from the air to the liquid. If they are the same temperature, no heat transfer or temperature change would take place.