Fuel Additive that Works!!!!

[GPangrle]

Additive

I tried it not a good test but no improvement

 

[WDaniels]

Let's keep any posts relevent to the discussion of this product. Cute comments, snide comments, quips about hottie's don't cut it.

First time I read this thread, I like the comments about hotties!:-laf By the way, what was this thread about?:-laf

WD

 

[jeffnvegas]

lot of time and money to spend for an iffy maybe 2mpg's if that. now if it gave you an extra 100k miles between rebuilds then i would say maybe you got something there or even 10hp. but why???

 

[dsherman]

lot of time and money to spend for an iffy maybe 2mpg's if that. now if it gave you an extra 100k miles between rebuilds then i would say maybe you got something there or even 10hp. but why???

Ditto

David

 

[DPellegrin]

The appropriate question here is does CA-40 increase the heating value of diesel fuel? If it does not, then there is no way it will improve fuel economy. Diesel engines burn about 99. 99% of the fuel they use. Only about 0. 01% shows up in the exhaust unburned in the form of emissions. Hydrocarbons, carbonmonoxide, and particulate all have heating value. The amount of these gases and particulate in the engine's exhaust is tiny compared to the total heating value of the fuel the engine uses. If you do an energy balance on the engine you find that about 40% of the fuel's heating value shows up as work on the crankshaft, about 30% of the heating value shows up in the exhaust as heat, and about 30% is rejected to the engine's coolant as heat. So, if someone is telling you that they can improve fuel economy by any amount they need to explain how laws of thermdynamics don't apply to their additive or, how their additive increases the heating value (energy content) or, how their additive has affected the diesel combustion cycle work so that the brake specific fuel consumption of the engine has been changed.

 

[Ncostello]

I call BS, until someone proves me wrong. The clincher for me was the "add it to your crankcase" bit. Fuel and crank case additives are two things that should remain seperate, IMO.

Further... crank additives should be kept out of the crankcase in my opinion.

 

[FLynes]

I call BS, until someone proves me wrong. The clincher for me was the "add it to your crankcase" bit. Fuel and crank case additives are two things that should remain seperate, IMO.



Daniel

Not trying to sound like a smart alec here, but what about Marvel Mystery Oil? Isn't that a fuel/crankcase additive?



By the way, CA-40's Q&A section on their website is good for a snicker or two.

 

[KHaines]

So, if someone is telling you that they can improve fuel economy by any amount they need to explain how laws of thermdynamics don't apply to their additive or, how their additive increases the heating value (energy content) or, how their additive has affected the diesel combustion cycle work so that the brake specific fuel consumption of the engine has been changed.

According to your lines of thought, how can any performance product increase MPG? By increasing the engines efficency, it could give more than 40% to the crankshaft. Isn't this how most boxes work? Is it possible to add something to the fuel to cause it to burn quicker or better atomization? I don't know, but your logic doesn't seem to add up. I have nothing to gain by this or any product on the web. Just want to get the most bang for the buck.

 

[DPellegrin]

KHaines

Excellent question!



Consider that the lower heating value of a gallon of #2 diesel fuel is 126,034 BTUs (handbook value from Chevron) This is chemical energy. The diesel engine converts the chemical energy to heat energy, about 40% of which the engine converts to mechanical energy with the remainder of the energy showing up in heat to the exhaust and engine coolant. This is the second law of thermodynamics which says that there is no perfect energy conversion, some energy is always lost to the system (diesel engine). Let's say your aftermarket "box" modifies the injection timing, probably advancing the injection timing. Resulting in higher cylinder temps and pressures. Now this probably makes the engine a little more efficient (lower specific fuel consumption);however, the exhaust temp will be lower at the same engine torque level when compared to the engine at factory injection timing. This injection timing modification will also result in much higher oxide of nitrogen emissions from the engine.

Please remember that the fuel injector only knows volume it does not know fuel density (energy content) and we are talking about a fuel additive here. An example of this would be an engine running on #1 fuel versus #2 fuel. The same volume of fuel is injected per stroke but #2 fuel has higher heating value (density) and therefore makes more power. A fuel additive is not going to change injection timing. It seems to me the only way that it could improve fuel economy is liberate more heat on a volume basis.



Best Regards

 

[KHaines]

DPellegrin



Thanks for the reply. Is it possible for an additive to allow for a quicker burn or better atomization? If so, than it could help economy without adding BTU.

 

[steved]

DPellegrin



Thanks for the reply. Is it possible for an additive to allow for a quicker burn or better atomization? If so, than it could help economy without adding BTU.

Ummm, isn't this the same as Cetane? Don't Cetane points cause the burn to be retarded/enhanced?? Cetane is a rate of burn IIRC...



steved

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

DPellegrin the premise diesel fuel additives work on to improve MPG & lower smoke is raising cetane values, which causes fuel to start burning more quickly at beginning of injection in the cylinder which means more even & beneficial combustion. That's the theory anyway

 

[DPellegrin]

Gentlemen,

The cetane rating of diesel fuel is a measure of the auto-ignition characteristic of the given fuel. Cetane rating is like octane rating for a spark ignition engine only the opposite end of the auto ignition-spectrum. In a diesel engine the fuel is ignited by hot air, and, in fact, would fit the definition of detonation in a spark ignition engine. In a spark ignition engine you want the fuel to be ignited by a spark at just the right time. Detonation like a diesel engine would not be good. High octane number fuel is a low cetane number fuel- and vice versa.

Typical cetane numbers for #2 diesel are 40-45 and this meets the requirements of Cummins, CAT, DDC and ASTM D-975, DF2. The cetane rating does control the ignition delay period in the power stroke of a diesel engine, but will have no effect on brake specific fuel consumption (fuel efficiency or MPG), because it has no effect on the heating value of the fuel. Diesel engines are designed to have a ignition delay period that results from the use of commercially available #2 diesel fuels. The rate of pressure rise, the rate of injection versus engine speed are taken into account for fuels that are 40-45 cetane. Just because the ignition delay period is longer does not mean that there is unburned fuel in the exhaust. I stated in my first post on this topic that it is well documented that diesel engines burn (oxidize) about 99. 99% of the fuel they use. An energy balance on the engine proves this. So let's say combustion was perfect and the engine burned 100% of the fuel, then the only products of combustion would be carbondioxide, water vapor and nitrogen dioxide from the high combustion temps (+3000 degrees F). But, combustion is never perfect. The question is how much of products of combustion in the exhaust have heating value and are unburned (not oxidized). The answer is very little. In fact, it takes some very sensitive instruments to measure the exhaust products and the values are in the parts per million range.

Cetane enhancer additives are very popular here in Minnesota in the winter to promote better cold starts and limit white/cold smoke. I use them myself, but I have never experienced improved fuel economy as a result.



I hope this answers the cetane question.



Best Regards,

 

[Crash&Burn]

Did anyone read the tests?

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50 HP increase... ... ... .

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over 21% mileage increase... :

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emissions down a bunch...

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You've got to be kidding... . I'll put this in my STP file.

 

[jleons]

Hello

I have been using Lubrication Engineers fuel supplements for 15 yrars. 2410 in winter and 2420 in less demanding winter conditions. Have used this product in Alaska, Colorado, Utah, Wash and Maine. Never let me down w/ no fuel problems ever.

Thanks,

JL

 

[radar doctor]

I Know This Won't Increase The Fuel Milage But I'm Interested In Keeping The Pump Lubercated In My 03. . someone Told Me Or I Read On Here That 4 Ozs Of Outboard Motor Oil Was Good In 35 Gals Of Diesel. . What Do You Guy's Think ??? Radar Doctor

 

[BillGotthelf]

The absolute best lubricant you can add to diesel fuel is bio-diesel.

 

[radar doctor]

lLOOKS LIKE IF WE WANT BETTER FUEL MILEAGE, THEN WE'D BETTER CONSIDER REDUCING THE WEIGHT OF THE TRUCK... I UNDERSTAND THATS WHAT'S COMING IN THE NEW CARS... HOW'S MY THEORY??? RADAR DOCTOR

 

[FLynes]

If you can figure out a way to reduce the weight, I'm all ears Doc.

 

[steved]

If you can figure out a way to reduce the weight, I'm all ears Doc.

I found that weight really has little to do with it (talking hundreds of pounds, not extreme amounts). I've gotten some of my best mileages with over 2k pounds in the bed...



I think we should focus on aerodynamics to increase mileage... coupled with driving slower.



steved