2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Fuel Additive

[JR]

BIG, don't ever say never :-laf

Of course, we could have all the bad drivers in our area...

http://fox8.com/2013/03/14/drivers-to-be-reimbursed-after-fuel-mix-up/



http://fox8.com/2013/07/29/gas-alert-getgo-notifies-drivers-of-fuel-mix-up/



These 2 incidents have happened in the last few months. Theyre not the first either.



GAmes, please enlighten a moron on what JP4 consists of.

 

[BIGNASTY]

BIG, don't ever say never :-laf
Of course, we could have all the bad drivers in our area...
http://fox8.com/2013/03/14/drivers-to-be-reimbursed-after-fuel-mix-up/

http://fox8.com/2013/07/29/gas-alert-getgo-notifies-drivers-of-fuel-mix-up/

These 2 incidents have happened in the last few months. Theyre not the first either.

GAmes, please enlighten a moron on what JP4 consists of.

Couldn't get the second one, True it happens all the time either end, At the Rack because of Rack techs with head up their butt. or a driver cross dumping. This is why the Driver trainers said DONT FIRE THE DRIVER, if he owns up to his mistake and stops the station from selling product. I really DONT CARE IF THE TERMINAL SCREWS UP its not my fault as in the first link. For 27 years I didn't make a mistake, the Reason??? I pulled my head out when I LOADED and when I DROPPED FUEL. The drive to the station and the drive back to the rack WAS MY TIME I paid attention to what was going on, but thought about things that were of interest to me. If you have to think about driving a tanker full of explosive, then DONT DRIVE THE THING. As a Driver trainer we made Procedures that if you followed them IT WAS PRETTY HARD TO SCREW UP. if you took short cuts or became complacent with what was going on that's when problems occur. I took Driver Trainer to the Extreme they paid 4 dollars per hour more to watch for things that could prevent accidents and stop fuel contam's With me they got more than what they paid for I think.

 

[GAmes]

Jp-4 is pure kerosene with some naptha from what I read. Gasoline was not used in jet fuel after 1944, a little before my time.



Fuel controls, at least in Lycoming engines (used in Hueys, Cobras and M-1 tanks) are in fact internally lubed by fuel. The first UH-1 (then designated as the HU-1, hence Huey) was powered by a Lycoming in the 50s. It's basic design hasn't changed very much.



I fail to see how a person could claim a p-pump doesn't have fuel lubed internal parts.



The rest is just blather.



Out

 

[Tractorat]

Now that I think about it, isnt it the lift pump that the new fuel is supposed to take out ? And that is what takes out the vp44?

 

[cerberusiam]

Fuel controls, at least in Lycoming engines (used in Hueys, Cobras and M-1 tanks) are in fact internally lubed by fuel. The first UH-1 (then designated as the HU-1, hence Huey) was powered by a Lycoming in the 50s. It's basic design hasn't changed very much.



I fail to see how a person could claim a p-pump doesn't have fuel lubed internal parts.

Sheesh, layoff the medical marijuana before you go on a rant, you might make some sense. :-laf:-laf



Fuel controls lubed by aviation fuel, are you dreaming?? There is no lubrication value in av gas, it is dryer than the llano estacado. If the fuel controls weren't maintained with the correct seals and packing the things jammed at the most in opportune time. Gasoline and jet fuel has NEVER been used as a lubricant, at least nobody has lived to confirm it worked. That is answer enough.



Have you ever taken a p-pump apart and actually looked at what is lubed by what? The pump runs the bulk of the parts in an engine oil bath, and, as I pointed out the only the top end relies on fuel for lube unlike the all the rest of the pumps that NEED fuel to lube the WHOLE PUMP.



Every comparison you make ONLY applies to the P7100. All the rest of the trucks before and after a short 4 year run have different requirments. If thats blathering then we KNOW what you are spouting.

Now that I think about it, isnt it the lift pump that the new fuel is supposed to take out ? And that is what takes out the vp44?

The LP's on those trucks were just a bad after thought anyway. They needed little excuse to die. The VP-44 relies on fuel to lube and cool it internally all the way thru. Lack of lube and\or cooling caused the fuel control rod to score and drag in the close toleranve sleeves it ran in. If the solenoid did react in specified parmaters the 0216 reared its ugly head.

 

[Sticks]

Colorado was another state that saw a large number of pump failures when the ULSD hit the pumps. I worked at Central Motive Power (Bosch & Stanadyne Certified warranty and rebuild center) and we saw O-rings that did not play well with whatever they put in as a replacement for the sulfur, sheared pump shafts (seized pumps) and galled barrels. Not just VP44s, but VE, P-Pumps...

Ford's 7. 3 IDI pumps would start leaking fuel almost as fast as it was going in. GM 6. 2 & 6. 5 pumps would have barrels scored an the VP44 looked like someone put a tablespoon of sand in it.

This combined with the rush of Chicken Fat (Bio Fuel) as an alternative - all the diesel fuel injection manufactures got together and put out a blanket statement - and I am paraphrasing here - "The end user is solely responsible for the quality of fuel that is being run in their engines, including filtration and fuel quality that meets xxxxxx standards. Any fuel injection component that fails during the warranty period if it is determined that the cause was failure to meet the above guidelines, will NOT be covered under warranty.

This trend of pump failures only lasted about 3 months, and I am guessing that it was 1 month before the fuel in Colorado was brought up to spec. All the manufacturers came out with a different flavor of O-rings to deal with that problem, but as far as I know the rest of the specs for the pumps remained the same.

I personally have been adding the proper dose of Stanadyne to my fuel since 2005. I am on my 3rd injection pump since I bought the truck, and I know that the Edge Comp is what brought about the replacement of #2, more specifically a rush judgement on my part as to having a pump failure when in fact it was the Edge that was giving me the symptoms.



To the OP,

I haven't driven my truck towing since last year and I have a trip planned for September , my question with this low sulfur fuel should I use an additive in my fuel . I was thinking about using seafoam as I have used it in my old gasoline engine truck with good results . It reads on the can for a diesel has any of you guys used seafoam in your Cummins engine ?

If your truck has been sitting and not running at all since last year, then I would definitely do a fuel filter change now, fill the tank up, then do another filter change at half a tank. I'd be more concerned with water in the fuel from condensation than anything.

If you have been driving it fairly regularly all this time, hook up and go. No need for any additives unless you feel the need.

 

[GAmes]

Sheesh, layoff the medical marijuana before you go on a rant, you might make some sense. :-laf:-laf



Fuel controls lubed by aviation fuel, are you dreaming?? There is no lubrication value in av gas, it is dryer than the llano estacado. If the fuel controls weren't maintained with the correct seals and packing the things jammed at the most in opportune time. Gasoline and jet fuel has NEVER been used as a lubricant, at least nobody has lived to confirm it worked. That is answer enough.

You are a funny guy. Too bad you have no experience with gas turbine engines. It is also funny how this thread got so far off track. Do you also think that the "study" is legitimate?



First off, jet fuel and av gas are two entirely different liquids. Av gas is used in reciprocating engines.



Perhaps lubed isn't entirely an accurate term, but the hydro-mechanical fuel control for the engines I flew and maintained had nothing else internally to bathe the valves, levers and highly machined pieces that made it so expensive while the fuel passed through it on the way to the injector nozzles. (that is where the hydro part comes from)



So, there was never a VP-44 failure until ULSD was introduced? That seems to be the consensus.



And, for the record, I don't care how much money you dump into your fuel tank. It's your money after all. I'm betting that the poorly designed pump will fail anyway, and all that money should have been spent on beer.

 

[Killgore]

Well, I don't know much about jet fuel and av gas; I spent my time chugging around on an LST with the 5th Battalion, 2nd Marines. I'm sure not an expert, as evidenced by my membership in TDR, and a desire to learn as much as possible by reading the posts. I do know that right after I bought my truck she started throwing white smoke when I first cranked her up. The addition of some Power Service appeared to correct the issue. Since then, I have added a squirt of Racor (Stanadyne is not available in this part of the Third World) and the white smoke hasn't reappeared. Coincidence, happen-chance, dumb luck? I don't know, and really it's not that big a deal to me. It works for me. I am also aware that the old girl runs better if I use it for what I bought it for - pulling the camper. When I poke down to the local bait store and buy a pack of Levi Garrett and never warm it up or put it in a hard pull, she starts to act a bit stuffy, contrary and disagreeable. Reminds me of my first wife.



Now, with all that said - when it starts to getting into my beer allowance, maybe I'll reconsider this thread.



Ed

 

[BIGNASTY]

Sheesh, layoff the medical marijuana before you go on a rant, you might make some sense. :-laf :-laf









:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf WACKY BACKY

 

[BIGNASTY]

Well, I don't know much about jet fuel and av gas; I spent my time chugging around on an LST with the 5th Battalion, 2nd Marines. I'm sure not an expert, as evidenced by my membership in TDR, and a desire to learn as much as possible by reading the posts. I do know that right after I bought my truck she started throwing white smoke when I first cranked her up. The addition of some Power Service appeared to correct the issue. Since then, I have added a squirt of Racor (Stanadyne is not available in this part of the Third World) and the white smoke hasn't reappeared. Coincidence, happen-chance, dumb luck? I don't know, and really it's not that big a deal to me. It works for me. I am also aware that the old girl runs better if I use it for what I bought it for - pulling the camper. When I poke down to the local bait store and buy a pack of Levi Garrett and never warm it up or put it in a hard pull, she starts to act a bit stuffy, contrary and disagreeable. Reminds me of my first wife.



Now, with all that said - when it starts to getting into my beer allowance, maybe I'll reconsider this thread.



Ed

Best post on this Thread, I also feel that if the truck is used for its intended purpose it runs better. I don't drive my 04. 5 nearly as much but when I fire it up and drive a few hundred miles it DOES ACT BETTER!!!



And Ed the part about the Beer is hart warming I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!:-laf

 

[klcammie]

My 2 cents I use FPPF couple oz and away I go. To each his own. Use pressure gauge buy good fuel and run the pi-- out of the od girl. Enjoy your truck.

 

[Killgore]

Hah! Thanks BIG, but please don't encourage me. The collar hurts my neck when I get to the end of the chain.



Ed

 

[cerberusiam]

I personnally burned thousands of gallons of Jet-A and JP-4. Between 85 and 100 gallons per flight hour in UH-1s and Cobras and abot 135 gallons an hour in Apaches.

Fuel controls, at least in Lycoming engines (used in Hueys, Cobras and M-1 tanks) are in fact internally lubed by fuel. The first UH-1 (then designated as the HU-1, hence Huey) was powered by a Lycoming in the 50s. It's basic design hasn't changed very much.

It is also funny how this thread got so far off track.

As evidenced by your posts, it got so far off track because you are reaching into the nether regions trying to make comparisons that don't wash.

Too bad you have no experience with gas turbine engines.

You are correct, I don't. I rely on my son that maintained the gas turbines for the Navy and my SIL that is Comabat Battalion maintenance lead for the Armys aircraft.



Everything you talk about and hold up for comparison is a gas turbine engine running Jet A, Jp-4, JP-8, high performance kerosene not diesel and definitely NOT used to lube ANY parts since it has no lubrication properties. The fuel controls you are tyring to compare are sealed units that do not use fuel for lube.



As I pointed out, the lube and cooling properties do not apply to anything in your experience because those systems do not require it. The studies are valid as it pertains to fuel systems that require those properties. The P7100 IP's and gas turbines are not part of that audience so there is no valid comparison to be made.



Nobody EVER said VP-44's did not expire before ULSD came along, just pointed out the subsequent failures had a lot to do with the reduction in native lubrication properties of diesel fuel. To suggest otherwise is just ignoring the obvious.



You are basically arguing a moot point, your IP does not strictly require the properties being discussed here. The rest of us are not that lucky and that is still the bulk of the audience.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Hah! Thanks BIG, but please don't encourage me. The collar hurts my neck when I get to the end of the chain.



Ed

:-laf:-laf



I would take the chain over the EVIL EYE that I get.

 

[JR]

:-laf:-laf



I would take the chain over the EVIL EYE that I get.

I always thought it was easier to ask for forgiveness later than ask for permission now... . :-laf:-laf

Luckily for me I wound up with one of the better ones and the forgiveness part was never that bad... . week long 4 wheelin trips, camping trips, the way I see it, if I did it before you came along... .

 

[jgillott]

:-laf:-laf

I would take the chain over the EVIL EYE that I get.

Try a frying pan once. You'll take the Evil Eye anyday after that. :--)

 

[Killgore]

Oh Lord, I'm truly blessed. She is right there with me, with a sense of humor that matches my own sarcastic nature, and supports me 100% when I still do something stupid, or at least waits until we're alone to correct me. It is absolutely wonderful to pull the wagon of life with a partner that pulls just as hard as myself and still allows me enough room to buck, holler and carry on, while she still is laughing about it all. I suppose she's got me figured out.



Ed

 

[BIGNASTY]

Try a frying pan once. You'll take the Evil Eye anyday after that. :--)

I tried the frying pan!!!!!!!!!! is the one your talking about when your HIT WITH IT? or WHEN IT'S HOT AND YOUR IN IT?

Oh Lord, I'm truly blessed. She is right there with me, with a sense of humor that matches my own sarcastic nature, and supports me 100% when I still do something stupid, or at least waits until we're alone to correct me. It is absolutely wonderful to pull the wagon of life with a partner that pulls just as hard as myself and still allows me enough room to buck, holler and carry on, while she still is laughing about it all. I suppose she's got me figured out.

Ed

Our soon to get Married Daughter and her Hubby came and asked what has been the secret of your Marriage? Penny gave some big long dissertation on the ups and downs, and she was right about what she thought. Our daughters soon to be husband asked how about you BIG?

Respect!!!! and Thank her for the little things she does.

Penny said Gail that's so sweet, you surprise me. Then I added, Treat her like you did the first time you wanted into her pants!!!!!!!!!

Got a, Could have had a V8 head slap on that one!!! :-laf

BIG

 

[Blu-meanie]

"Treat her like you did the first time you wanted into her pants!!!!!!!!!"
Now that's some excellent advice BIG. Even worth a dope slap.

 

[jgillott]

I tried the frying pan!!!!!!!!!! is the one your talking about when your HIT WITH IT? or WHEN IT'S HOT AND YOUR IN IT?

Picture this... ... The wife was expecting our daughter. I walked in the kitchen while she was making my breakfast. One of those moments occured when the words that shouldn't have been in my mind just happened to slip out. I still have the lump on my head to prove it.

Just remind your soon to be son-in-law that the words "God your *** is huge" should never be said near any woman, especially a pregnant one near a heavy metal object.