Okay TDR members here's your chance to let me know your opinion on fuel pump additives, and if you believe they prolong or shorten the infamous lift pump life span. I would specifically like to know if anyone has had a lift pump fail while using Marvel Mystery Oil.
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Fuel additives and lift pumps
- Thread starter Paulsdodge
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I asked the exact same question some time ago and got alot of responses. They were all over the place form no additives to every imaginable additive. There seemed to be no pattern to whether or not additives hurt or helped the lp problem. Ps my truck is just like yours,2001 ho bone stock,40k no problems and I use Stanadyne religously. Steve.
The Central Florida TDR club went to SouthEast Power Systems of Orlando about 6 months ago. They rebuild dozens of high pressure pumps a DAY of all types. They rebuild injectors etc as well. We asked them the one thing an owner can do to "keep her running". Their answer was DO NOT EVER LET EVEN THE SMALLEST AMOUNT OF WATER IN THE SYSTEM! Water will damage the high pressure pumps faster than anything else.
Ok, how do you do that? They recommended Stanadyne Blue in EVERY tank. One thing it does is hold the water in suspension so it can pass and be burned.
The other key thing it does is provide internal lubrication beyond the fuel itself. You know that there is a federal mandate to lessen the amount of sulfure by 2006. Sulfure is part of the lubrication of the pumps. How do you know if you have just gotten a tank of low sulfure fuel? You don't!
Stanadyne blue in EVEY tank safe guards against low sulfure and emulsifies the water to keep from internal pump damage.
We asked why Stanadyne blue, why not something else? Their answer was because it works!
That is what they do for a living, fix pumps. Works for me.
Bob Weis
Ok, how do you do that? They recommended Stanadyne Blue in EVERY tank. One thing it does is hold the water in suspension so it can pass and be burned.
The other key thing it does is provide internal lubrication beyond the fuel itself. You know that there is a federal mandate to lessen the amount of sulfure by 2006. Sulfure is part of the lubrication of the pumps. How do you know if you have just gotten a tank of low sulfure fuel? You don't!
Stanadyne blue in EVEY tank safe guards against low sulfure and emulsifies the water to keep from internal pump damage.
We asked why Stanadyne blue, why not something else? Their answer was because it works!
That is what they do for a living, fix pumps. Works for me.
Bob Weis
Source....
http://www.dieselpage.com/additive.htm
I think Bob is referring to the Performance Forumula... . never heard it referred to as "blue".
Case of 6 1/2 gallons shipped to my doorstep in Oregon for $101 and change.
I can get it for about the same price in Portland, but have to drive 140 mile roundtrip.
http://www.dieselpage.com/additive.htm
I think Bob is referring to the Performance Forumula... . never heard it referred to as "blue".
Case of 6 1/2 gallons shipped to my doorstep in Oregon for $101 and change.
I can get it for about the same price in Portland, but have to drive 140 mile roundtrip.
The TDR member I bought my truck from always used Power Service Plus, so naturally I continued with the same treatment.
The information RWEIS posted regarding Stanadyne being highly recomended by a company who rebuilds these types of units is definitely reason enough for me to consider a possible change. Especially since I just replaced my Lift Pump.
Anyone have a comparison between Stanadyne Performance and Power Service Plus??????
The information RWEIS posted regarding Stanadyne being highly recomended by a company who rebuilds these types of units is definitely reason enough for me to consider a possible change. Especially since I just replaced my Lift Pump.
Anyone have a comparison between Stanadyne Performance and Power Service Plus??????
The Performance Formula is correct. The label is blue. Stanadyne also makes a red label product (don't know the name), but SE Pwr Sys pump rebuilders felt the Performance Formula was better than the "red label" and more effective.
A 1/2 gallon treats 240 gallons of diesel. I forget what I paid for it, but about $15 / $17 is about right. Adds about $. 07 per gallon (@$17 / half gallon) of fuel, more than $. 07 a gallon in peace of mind to me.
In the last TDR mag I think I remember reading that BP was going to make the low sulfur fuel available much sooner than 2006. I was in the smokies and the only station was a BP. Having the Stanadyne gave a certain sense of safety if the diesel was low sulfur or not, which of course you have no way of knowing.
I have no reference if competing products have same characteristics or not. Maybe SE Pwr just happens to like Stanadyne. Probably any quality additive will do the same thing. I think the point is to use something as low sulfur diesel makes it's way through the distribution system, and of course to get and keep the water out.
Bob Weis
A 1/2 gallon treats 240 gallons of diesel. I forget what I paid for it, but about $15 / $17 is about right. Adds about $. 07 per gallon (@$17 / half gallon) of fuel, more than $. 07 a gallon in peace of mind to me.
In the last TDR mag I think I remember reading that BP was going to make the low sulfur fuel available much sooner than 2006. I was in the smokies and the only station was a BP. Having the Stanadyne gave a certain sense of safety if the diesel was low sulfur or not, which of course you have no way of knowing.
I have no reference if competing products have same characteristics or not. Maybe SE Pwr just happens to like Stanadyne. Probably any quality additive will do the same thing. I think the point is to use something as low sulfur diesel makes it's way through the distribution system, and of course to get and keep the water out.
Bob Weis
rmrc - Power Service Plus
Power Plus does not emulsify water in your tank. It does drop water out of the diesel fuel so it can't go thru the system. The very best diesel fuel conditioners break up large water molecules (emulsify them) and allow them to pass thru pumps & injectors as very small droplets without causing problems.
If the Stanadyne Blue does that - excellect. One other I know of (and use) is Synergyn Oil Co's product called Preventalube. Is an oil based product, for lubrication to fuel pumps, injectors & upper cylinders, as well as a water emulsifier. Also softens & burns away gums & carbon on pistons, rings & valves. I have used it for several years and seen it clean up a dirty high mileage engine. Works in gas or diesel but what I like best is the added upper cylinder lubrication for the low sulfur (on road) diesel fuel!
Six 1 gal jug case, delivered = $15. 00 @ gallon. See company store @ synergynracing.com
Power Plus does not emulsify water in your tank. It does drop water out of the diesel fuel so it can't go thru the system. The very best diesel fuel conditioners break up large water molecules (emulsify them) and allow them to pass thru pumps & injectors as very small droplets without causing problems.
If the Stanadyne Blue does that - excellect. One other I know of (and use) is Synergyn Oil Co's product called Preventalube. Is an oil based product, for lubrication to fuel pumps, injectors & upper cylinders, as well as a water emulsifier. Also softens & burns away gums & carbon on pistons, rings & valves. I have used it for several years and seen it clean up a dirty high mileage engine. Works in gas or diesel but what I like best is the added upper cylinder lubrication for the low sulfur (on road) diesel fuel!
Six 1 gal jug case, delivered = $15. 00 @ gallon. See company store @ synergynracing.com
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Thats why I run twin stanadyne fuel filter/water seperators... as well as Performance Formula. Plus the place I buy diesel from sells high quality diesel and uses filters/seperators on the pump. After some conversation with the VP of Stanadyne... I'm a believer water is bad for injection pumps as well as electric powered lift pumps.
I can't comment on the 24v or lift pump. I have a 12v, And I have always used AMSOIL FUEL CONDITIONER, AND CETAINE BOOSTER. I not only have had very good luck, no injector problems, pump problems(knock, knock) but everytime I have ever gone to the EPA inspection site (in KY they make us run thru this every other year), They always comminte on how low my readings are, there you would be allowed 10/parts per million, my reading would be . 01, the lowest the macjine will regester. Very unuseual for a deisel. And it always good for a extra 2 mpg, only time I don't use it is when on the road and no time. I have an aux fuel tank, so I can carry an extra 45 gal. , usually I will re-fuel my self, that way I get the bennifts of the amsoil, it's always in th tank.
Your system looks first class, can you post where you purchased the parts and how you installed them. Do you get rid of your banjos too? (more pictures if you dont mind)
Thanks
Your system looks first class, can you post where you purchased the parts and how you installed them. Do you get rid of your banjos too? (more pictures if you dont mind)
Thanks
Tejas... I've got tons of pictures. If you click "View Readers Rigs Gallery" under my username on this post header you can look at my album titled "relocated lift pump". They are all in there. There is also another album showing the Stanadyne units before the install.
Here is my story and/or history on my install:
Operation Lift Pump Longevity
I got rid of all banjos. I used 3/8" J30R7 fuel hose. There are all straight fittings on the fuel fiter heads. Only one 90 degree -6AN elbow at the VP. Using the 5" long filters, my setup is totally protected under the frame with nothing hanging down. It has electric fuel heaters and a WIF sensor system.
Important note: My fuel tank module was seriously modified in the sense that I totally removed the pickup screen filter (more like a silk mesh screen). It became unnecessary and was probably more of a restriction than any benefit. This is not necessary for everyone but I thought it was for the best.
I maintain above 14psi while driving... over 15psi idle... and never below 13. 4 psi while under WOT conditions (including WOT trailer towing up hills... I finally tried that).
Here is my story and/or history on my install:
Operation Lift Pump Longevity
I got rid of all banjos. I used 3/8" J30R7 fuel hose. There are all straight fittings on the fuel fiter heads. Only one 90 degree -6AN elbow at the VP. Using the 5" long filters, my setup is totally protected under the frame with nothing hanging down. It has electric fuel heaters and a WIF sensor system.
Important note: My fuel tank module was seriously modified in the sense that I totally removed the pickup screen filter (more like a silk mesh screen). It became unnecessary and was probably more of a restriction than any benefit. This is not necessary for everyone but I thought it was for the best.
I maintain above 14psi while driving... over 15psi idle... and never below 13. 4 psi while under WOT conditions (including WOT trailer towing up hills... I finally tried that).
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Improved Mileage
I also picked up almost 1 mpg on my CTD after using the Synergyn product mentioned above. I know of no reputable company that will swear you get an increase using their product, but I do believe the process of cleaning up a dirty engine will probably result in better mileage by reducing hot spots on piston crowns and improving spray patterns from injectors. It did for me on a pervious purchase of a used truck (gas) with 42 ,000 miles on it. Over 4 months I saw an increase in power and +1. 5 mpg at the pumps on a big block V-8.
I also picked up almost 1 mpg on my CTD after using the Synergyn product mentioned above. I know of no reputable company that will swear you get an increase using their product, but I do believe the process of cleaning up a dirty engine will probably result in better mileage by reducing hot spots on piston crowns and improving spray patterns from injectors. It did for me on a pervious purchase of a used truck (gas) with 42 ,000 miles on it. Over 4 months I saw an increase in power and +1. 5 mpg at the pumps on a big block V-8.
I just did two things:
1. I opened up an old lift pump. 3 bolts and the pump cover can be removed. Gues what? There is a screen inside the pump that is easily removed and I think removal would be a good idea to enable the pump to breath best. But, if one does that then installation of a fuel/water seperator and filter between the fuel tank and the lift pump would be necessary. Mine did not have any dirt, but still ithe screen certainly restricts the flow to my mind.
2. The construction of the pump mechanism (vanes that slide in slots on an off-center rotor)(much like a rotary engine piston)is pretty simple. In my opinion, diesel in any formulation will provide proper lube to the vanes. Additives are a waste of money for lube of the lift pump, but certainly are good for injector pump and injectors.
3. I suspect the most common failure is the lift pump motor bearings. They are sealed and I don't know that one could make access to the upper one. The lower one, however can be lubed by dirlling a small hole in the bottom of the motor housing. Add 30W once in a while to keep this bearing happy. Install a rubber plug to keep out dirt.
Anybody done this operation?
1. I opened up an old lift pump. 3 bolts and the pump cover can be removed. Gues what? There is a screen inside the pump that is easily removed and I think removal would be a good idea to enable the pump to breath best. But, if one does that then installation of a fuel/water seperator and filter between the fuel tank and the lift pump would be necessary. Mine did not have any dirt, but still ithe screen certainly restricts the flow to my mind.
2. The construction of the pump mechanism (vanes that slide in slots on an off-center rotor)(much like a rotary engine piston)is pretty simple. In my opinion, diesel in any formulation will provide proper lube to the vanes. Additives are a waste of money for lube of the lift pump, but certainly are good for injector pump and injectors.
3. I suspect the most common failure is the lift pump motor bearings. They are sealed and I don't know that one could make access to the upper one. The lower one, however can be lubed by dirlling a small hole in the bottom of the motor housing. Add 30W once in a while to keep this bearing happy. Install a rubber plug to keep out dirt.
Anybody done this operation?
I removed the screen of my new pump when I re-engineered my system. That and I also removed the screen in the tank pickup. That mesh screen is so fine I cannot see openings in it. Looks more like fine silk. Fuel kinda "absorbs" through it rather than flow in my mind.
Unless I'm mistaken I thought the bushings in the pump motor were lubed by the diesel flowing around inside of it. Thats why its important to keep the water off of it and the electrical motor parts.
Unless I'm mistaken I thought the bushings in the pump motor were lubed by the diesel flowing around inside of it. Thats why its important to keep the water off of it and the electrical motor parts.
Bob from what I've read in the TDR, sulfur is not a lubricant. It is the extraction of the sulfur that affects the lubricant value of the diesel fuel. When they go to low sulfur fuel they will add the appropriate amount of lubricant to compensate for the loss of lubrication during the sulfur extraction process. I also use DFA at every fillup to add protection and will continue this practice. Hope this helps
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