Fuel Additives, are they worth using?

[Moe]

I run Power Service because it quitens the injector pump. And thats the fact Jack! Moe

 

[steved]

I'm going to throw this into the conversation...

I used PowerService (with SlickDiesel) in every tank of this 04. 5... up until I lost an injector at 145k. All the injectors were well worn, which leads me to believe that either the additive did nothing, or actually caused the increased wear.

On top of this, additives may have been OK prior to the introduction of ULSD, but one thing to keep in mind is that ULSD uses additives to bring it back into specification (after the lubrication is lost due to refining). And there is a thought that mixing additives isn't a good idea... (most additives are more of a solvent than a lubricant).

I have since used 2-stroke and it does make a difference in mileage and noise... it also looked well in the lubricity study. I don't use it every time... and I still use either CRC or PS when its forecast to be really cold. I am still on the fence on whether or not its really needed...

 

[GaryOwen]

I had a miss on my 03. Tried PS Diesel Kleen and no more miss within 50 miles of driving. Miss would return every 20k miles or so, would use PSDK and no more miss. Finally just began adding it at every oil change and no more miss. Worked for me.



Cummins does not recommend a fuel additive, but admits that it may be beneficial. They do not know what constituents make up the additives and therefore will not recommend any additive. Since, as Steved pointed out, ULSD contains additives, adding more additives is like a shot in the dark. Might help, might not, might even hurt. To each his own.



As far as oil changes, I extended my oil changes on my 03 to 12k miles and confirmed with oil samples.

 

[AHolt]

When I first bought my truck I used Power Service for gelling.

After I had a tank of fuel gel on me, I switched to Stanadyne

Performance Plus, I have ran it for a few years now and never

had fuel gel again.

 

[TCDiesel]

Comparison Premium Diesel Fuels with extra power, reduced emissions, better mileage, greater lubricity, faster cold weather starts and performance, environmental friendliness and other benefits which exceed industry premium diesel specifications.

I worked at Mid-American Pipeline in 1993-1996 in the off- season from my construction Company, I work the line and also deliver fuels to all types of customers, at that time Flint Hills was known as Koch, Koch was about 30% of Mids supplier, Fuel was back then simple clear #2, then Arctic Diesel made its way to the market (Awesome Fuel that now is not available) Now we have Clear #2 Gold and Gold Plus, all 3 of these are available to retailers and suppliers, So the next time you fill go and ask What fuel is being delivered Clear # 2 I say away from,, Gold or Gold Plus is my choice, also keep in mind MN has 5% Mandatory Diesel. https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=239.77 it seems there is no clear mandate from State to State.

 

[rbattelle]

So, the reality is:

1. There is absolutely NO proof that an additive does anything other than fleece your wallet.

2. NO one (Cummins, Dodge, fuel producers, Diesel Engineers) recommends that you use additives.

3. The manufacturer of the engine (Cummins) specifically advises against using any additive. What would be the point of building an engine that did.

4. ALL the "so called" testimony of satisfied users is purely opinion without the smallest shred of credible scientific data. How do you calculate the performance improvement with data like "gee, it seemed to run better after a while", or "I'm pretty sure I saw around a mile per gallon improvement". Of course the guy who has passed a half a million miles with three different trucks without using a single additive must just be a fluke..... right?

It appears that most additives do little more than fill the pockets of the makers. Although they may not hurt your engine, they certainly don't help it. Shoot, you may as well just add some ATF and moth balls to the tank. That was the rule of thumb for gassers for years... . people swore by that one.

Just my 5 cents fwiw. Besides, I gotta go change my oil... . it's been almost 3000 miles and I feel like throwing away some more money. :-laf

I think this pretty much sums it up, except for #3. I'm not aware that Cummins specifically recommends against additives. Can you provide a citation?

Also, I would point out that Stanadyne Performance Formula is now apparently "Formulated for ULSD".

I have long said that additives are probably pointless if you have good quality fuel. If your fuel source is questionable, however, they might be worth the investment.

Again, it's impossible to prove whether additives do anything. For every person who goes 1 million miles religiously using an additive, there's someone else who goes the same distance with no additives.

Oh, and I'm one of those nuts who changes oil every 3k. Ah well, can't take it with you, right?

Ryan

 

[TCDiesel]

Ryan Are You really changing at 3K? if so we will have to work on that

 

[steved]

Also, I would point out that Stanadyne Performance Formula is now apparently "Formulated for ULSD".



Ryan

I would hazard a guess this was more to meet EPA compliance than to be "formulated" for the newer fuel... when the USLD finally took hold, a lot of the existing additives got an additional sticker that stated whether it was "2007 compliant", or "safe for 2007 vehicles". I believe Marvel Mystery Oil even stated about the EPA part??

 

[steved]

Ryan Are You really changing at 3K? if so we will have to work on that

If I didn't put 10k on every couple months, I would probably change more frequently... just to change it. If I ever quite traveling for work, I'll probably drop the bypass and go back to 5k OCIs.



If he doesn't put a load of miles on it, then changing it is more for the chemical benefit (acids) than the physical benefit (soot, shearing).

 

[rbattelle]

Ryan Are You really changing at 3K? if so we will have to work on that

Indeed, I am.



Please understand, I must to do these things (fuel additives, short oil change intervals, etc. ) in order to be self-consistent.



For example, neither Cummins nor Dodge engineering recommends an oil pressure gauge on these trucks. Instead, they suggest a 6 psi switch. I don't accept this, so I have installed my own "real" oil pressure gauge.



The situation is similar for oil temperature, fuel filtration, lift pump, and other things.



By installing things like an oil pressure gauge, etc. , I am demonstrating that I do not trust the judgment of those who believe they are unnecessary.



Therefore, if I were to accept the Cummins/Dodge advice that fuel additives are not appropriate, I would simply be making myself a fool. Accepting Cummins and Dodge recommendations on one technicality, but then throwing it away on most everything else, would be paradoxical.



And so, in order to be self-consistent, I do these things. I certainly don't profess to have the right answer to anything; each of us must sew his own field as he sees fit.



Ryan

 

[TCDiesel]

I see you're point, if changing for the self-consistent is also acceptable to Me and others, All I ask that at the next 3k change sent it to Blackstone I will pay the analyst, I consider the oil to be the life blood of the engine, why would someone accept a transfusion just to be changing,(Now if changing on time span is understandable) all the other steps you have taken are preventive on the Platform of possible destruction or possible failure… changing on 3k is acceptable but in most cases it's wasteful.

 

[Grizzly]

Ryan, I respect your opinion and enjoy reading all your posts, but changing your trucks engine oil that often is a bit over kill. That's kind of like changing your underwear twice a day when the rest of the world changes theirs once a day.

 

[FourBarR]

How many out there have 300,000k on the vp-44 without any addative? I have 320,000k on original vp-44 and injectors. Have always used marvels mystery oil and Howes Meaner in every tank since new. Oil changes at 6000k and fuel filter at 12000k. Uses no oil between changes. Works for me," To each his own said the old lady as she kissed the cow " Have fun out there.

 

[steved]

Ryan, I respect your opinion and enjoy reading all your posts, but changing your trucks engine oil that often is a bit over kill. That's kind of like changing your underwear twice a day when the rest of the world changes theirs once a day.

But at the same time, does it hurt to change twice a day??? If he has the resources and it gives him peace of mind, more power to him.

 

[cojhl2]

Oil Change

Well yes I think it does hurt to change oil more often than necessary. The new oil comes from scare resources and it polutes the system to discard old oil.



I change mine @ 20K or once a year which ever comes first.

 

[TimothyLong]

I know a guy who who used to have a '92 Ferd F-350 Powerjoke. Drove it back and forth to work every day about 120+ miles round trip. Drove it back and forth from Maryland to Florida at least once every year for his vacation too. He changed his oil religiously every 3K (still does with his newer Ferd too). He got around 750K out of that truck before he got rid of it. The worst thing that ever happened was that it ate a valve on him one morning on his way to work. The shop he took it to tore it down and put a sleeve in the damaged cylinder. Other than the damaged cylinder, they said the inside of the engine looked brand new. Like Ryan, the only reason he does it is to be self consistent. Oh, and as far as I know he doesn't use any fuel additives of any kind (Marvel, 2-cycle oil, ant-gels, Stanadyne, Diesel Kleen, etc. ).

 

[TCDiesel]

The 7. 3 & 6. 0 Nav Motors not only use the crankcase oil for lube and cooling, it is also used to inject the fuel, I would recommend 3/5k change intervals. any type of oil that will not foam will work with the nav motors, generally if using High end lubes is just a waste of $$$$. . B/C of changing so often. the 7. 3 on long intervals will lose performance do to the oil degrading.

 

[brods]

Ryan, do whatever makes you happy. I was all ready to go somewhere between the 7,500 and 15K allowed in the maintenance schedules, that was until I saw the black tar that is supposed to pass for good oil in my 05. I buy the oil when its on sale and change it every 5K.



cojhl2, Used oil gets recycled or is used as boiler fuel or the like, so it is not wasted.





As far as fuel additives, who knows? I look at them as an insurance policy for fuel lubricity. Fleetguard even offers fuel filters with built in lubricity additives.

Cummins Filtration offers an array of fuel additive products to enhance the fuel system performance and support new emission standards. Changing regulations that have lead to the use of biodiesel blends and ULSD fuels have created unique maintenance needs across the globe. The addition of high quality fuel additives is now an important element in every good diesel engine maintenance program.

Cummins Filtration Fuel Additives

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT36049.pdf

 

[TimothyLong]

The 7. 3 & 6. 0 Nav Motors not only use the crankcase oil for lube and cooling, it is also used to inject the fuel, I would recommend 3/5k change intervals. any type of oil that will not foam will work with the nav motors, generally if using High end lubes is just a waste of $$$$. . B/C of changing so often. the 7. 3 on long intervals will lose performance do to the oil degrading.

That's interesting! Did not know that about the "Navs". I don't recall which oil he said that he used, but I do know that he orders it by the drum from a local distributor.

 

[DaveHess]

I'm with Ryan and Timothy. And I have to agree with Mr. Barlow too. As I stated in my post, I have seen no gains by using an additive but I have not been stranded anywhere because I did either. I do love this pick-up. I originally was looking at a Hemi when my lovely bride of 20 years looked me in the face and said I would never be happy until I got a diesel. Here I am 6 years later with not even an itch to look at newer pick-ups. I don't expect that Stanadyne will make it run forever but if it keeps things happy out there in the garage, I'll sleep better tonight.



And Ryan... about the babes.....



And BTW, I change my oil every 7500 miles which for me is once a year. The lowest TBN I have gotten back was a 9 using Valvoline Premium Blue Classic.