Fuel additives, snake oil or good science?

[2broke2smoke]

when i picked up my stacks a couple of months ago at Worldwide they were having a pretty heated discussion about the merits of fuel additives ...



i have always assumed they were snake oil and never have seen any info from independent sources stating otherwise ...



i had a first gen with 275k when sold and a friend has a surveying business that had two first gens with 350k plus ... no addatives ever ... no problems ever



he still has a second gen 24 valve, his daily driver, lost it's first lift pump last month at 200k ... (dealer charged him 800$ to swap ... i told him i'd do the next for 600 )



but everthing else is stone original ...



so wadda ya think ...



i've seen some very intelligent folks on here that swear by 'em



does anyone have fleet studies ... ingredient lists (proprietary i assume)



or anything of the sort from sources other than the company trying to sell you the product



i have a freind at napa that broke one of the big silver jugs of diesel clean i believe ... 96 oz minus a few that had leaked on the counter and he met me at the door with a funnel ... so the whole bottle went in to the last tank in my '01



no difference in idle, mileage (18. 6) or smoke Oo.



any thoughts

 

[JVolpe]

I have become a believer in snake oil myself. This is my first diesel and I was very skeptical of needing additives for a new engine. But experience with different station diesel quality or lack thereof, the way my truck was running, the dirty fuel filters convinced me to try diesel fuel additives. I started with Stanadyne, it was to hard to find and kinda expensive. I then switched to Power Service Kleen. Other long time diesel owners convinced me to try adding Marvel Mystery Oil to my additive. For the last 4000 miles or so I have used PS Kleen and MMO mix in every tank. (3 parts PS to 1 part MMO, 16oz in every fillup - 26-30 gallons).



For the last 3-4 weeks the truck is running better than ever before. I have 23,000 miles now. I dont know if the additives had anything to do with the truck running smoother, quieter, mpg up and more responsive than ever before. But for the little cost, extra lubrication, injector cleaning and maybe better mpg I will continue adding from now on.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Maxima 927!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FourBarR]

i have been using howes meaner in every tank since new . now have 359000kms. original vp44.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

2broke, while I think oil additives are snake oil, I believe exactly the opposite about fuel additives. . . very worthwhile! Like JVolpe says diesel fuel quality is all over the map, additives can give you assurance of lubricity (note not all have lubricity, pays to read the label).



Here's why I believe in it. . . a friend is a diesel injection mechanic, he says pumps torn down look better and have less wear when they've had fuel additives run through them. Piers has made a similar comment. Also I have seen a number of injector swapouts at BOMB parties and I noticed those running additives have considerably cleaner tips when they come out.



Vaughn

 

[Cattletrkr]

For everyday use, a B2 fuel is your best bet for lubricity and longevity. Don't use any addidtives myself, except antigel in the winter. My mechanic's main business is big truck, he doesn't recommend any. Said the only thing he's ever seen as a result of additives is a gummed up inj. pump that the driver overused additives.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It's a calculated risk sorta thing - and I seriously doubt anyone could possibly "prove" that using a fuel additive got the "X" number of extra miles outta their pumps - OR that another ownere "woulda got "X" miles MORE outta HIS" if he had only use an additive.



I use the same rationale for fuel additives I do for my spare tire and insurance - I pay for them both, and hope I really NEVER need to actually count on them to save my day.



I also figure it would be sorta stupid to NOT have them in case I do...

 

[Matt400]

so wadda ya think ...

I have never been one for additives but what got my attention was the study on the poor Diesel fuel quality here in the states vs Europe. Its a major concern and now with the push to reduce sulfur even more we are going downhill on the lubricisity.



I think if your gonna drive 100k don't bother but if you want 200k and more then its a good idea IMO mainly for the added lubricisity, better cetane is a plus too.

 

[Hohn]

I've noticed some VERY significant smoke reduction with Redline diesel additives.



jlh

 

[Matt400]

Good reading

Some interesting reading that includes links to reports can be found here

 

[Texas Diesel]

The most econmical way to increase lubricity is to add plain old 2 cycle engine oil. This oil is intended to be used a lubricant in a engine and is normally 99. 99+ ash free.



I add some at everyfill up to my 01 and may start adding it to the 12V as well.



200:1 has been mentioined several times by people who know.

 

[scotty1]

I am currently trying a Biodiesel additive from Milligan Biotech.

The first tank I noticed the engine idled smoother and less smoke with all the power cranked up. I am just now on the 2nd tank. I will be towing heavy and will see if it helps with mileage or anything else.



Scotty

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Here in New England we get the rot gut diesel fuel. When I add my

"Stack" (Amalgamated, Amsoil Cetane boost, Lucas) to the tank prior to fill-up, there is a marked reduction in exhaust smoke and noise. Also a marked Improvement in throttle response, overall smoothness and ease of starting compared to plain #2. I won't run without additives.

 

[Matt400]

Didn't know anybody was stacking additives!

 

[RJPotts]

I've tried every additive the I could find, I literally went to AutoZone and WalMart and Advance, etc... . and bought every different kind of fuel additive I could find used them all separately and there IS a pretty big difference between using them and plain old #2. My favorite so far is the Diesel Kleen, 1 bottle = about 2 tanks, helps lubricity, adds cetane, and costs less than the others.

I've never heard of using 2-stroke premix oil in the tank, I'd imagine that would work just fine.

I'd imagine something like Castor 927 would be the best bet for that.

Its very thin and very combustible, and smells good too.

Maybe I'll throw some of that in the tank next time.

-R. J.

 

[rbattelle]

The same article that convinced Matt400 to run an additive also convinced me to run one, purely for the lubricity enhancement (Biodiesel is not available here).



-Ryan

 

[fortunate1]

I use PS diesel kleen about every other fillup, mainly to prevent any buildup caused by stop&go driving. I also put about 12 oz of outboard 2-stroke oil in every fillup (if I can remember) for some extra lube in the fuel. The reason for the outboard oil vs. "chain saw" oil is the lower ash content: chain saws run at much higher temps (air cooled) and can burn off the ash, so it's not a concern to remove it during refining. Outboard motors use constant cool water (river, lake, ocean, etc. ) and run much cooler, so ash can cause buildup problems. My last 2 fillups (~1250 miles and ~600 miles) netted 22. 2 mpg and 23. 1 mpg respectively - mostly highway. Part of that is good fuel quality and full #2 rated (no more winter stuff) I'm sure.

 

[Todd T]

off topic:

Fastest Sheep Powered... ...

you're killing me!



on topic: I ran 24 bottles of Schaeffers Soy Shield through my last truck religiously. i kept an excel spreadsheet of mileage and hand calculated every drop onto it. for 49K I saw NO visible change in mileage, NO noticable change in Horsepower and have no way of knowing if it lubricated and protected my pump any better than straight fuel. when i approached Schaeffer about the product I stated i wanted a product than lubricated and increased cetane. If it works, I couldnt tell.



currently i run Amsoil dont know why other than just for the fear of the unknown (verified proof of lubricity & protection)

 

[Tony T.]

I've been using the Power Service Diesel Kleen (grey bottle) since about Sept 04. Mainly for the added lubricity,but any performance gains, or added mileage I won't complain about. Oo.



Also been thinking about using some marine 2 cycle oil mixture also with the PS.



Tony

 

[rowilson]

A good buddy of mine owns his own garage and does quite a bit of diesel work, OTR, Ag and light duty stuff. He has worked on trucks and diesels for 35 plus years and has his own injection pump rebuild facility. He told me to start using Stanadyne fuel additive as soon as possible. He says that he's seen a HUGE increase in injection pump failures lately and quite a bit of injector failures. He said most are the rack gauling and hanging up. This caused a runaway on a friend of ours Detroit right in front of my buddy's shop! The owner had one injector hang open and it took everything he could do to drag the fully loaded semi hauling grain to a stop. According to all we've heard the new low sulphur fuels aren't out yet but there's something happening to the stuff they are selling he'd bet on it. So the way I see it if you don't use additive you're just playing Russian Roulette.