Fuel additives

[Tuesdak]

I didn't realize that operators were experiencing filter gel problems to the extent that Brockman said. But I don't dispute it either. I just didn't see complaints about it.

The grid heater WILL heat before the engine starts. The fuel filter heater won't. It may help in below zero temps because of the surface area of the filter and the fact that metal casing transfers heat fast and because the flow is a bit slower through the filter. But it won't help a cold truck start if It's a frozen filter

You are thinking about how "water" acts and this doesn't apply to diesel as parts of diesel turn solid at different temps. (If you have that much water to freeze in a filter your engine is going to stop no matter what temp because the water separator plugs up with water and the separator filter stops flow.) The quick and dirty is as diesel reaches it's cloud point wax crystals start to form in it. Think of the cloud point between gelled like a solid candle and free flowing liquid diesel. These wax crystals are too big to pass through a filter and will plug it up. The diesel is still able to be pumped at this point - it's just plugging all the filters with all the wax crystals. The heater at the filter melts the wax crystals in the diesel fuel and allows it to pass through the filter like normal. The heated fuel return to the tank also helps when you are on the edge of cloud point/gelling. Of course if it gets colder the fuel turns to gel and you are done. (Can't start it or not enough heat to keep fuel flowing.) The upmost concern I have is "summer diesel" in Phoenix and going RVing to high elevations where it gets cold - and most aftermarket filter/pump setups don't give 10 cents of concern to a heater where it's needed: the first filter/separator in the system.

 

[Tuesdak]

Investigate matters, Check with local refinery on What they recommended , Check drop sheets at all Fuel stops (I do when convenient) the ONLY way to correctly remove water (Correctly) are encapsulating or Aqua-sorb filters (Illegal to install on direct injection filter system on combustion engines) So Bypass or transfer system is needed. IMO its a waste of Money and time to use spin on water separating Filters.

3 weeks old and 882 miles

Can't tell if this is the "slime" from a bad bug infection, rust, or a combo of both?

FWIW two "forgotten" 6.5 IDI mechanical diesels I owned got bad buggy wet fuel. The 6.5 that had the Spin on CAT water separator only required a tank replacement. The Other 6.5 without the water separator required a tank, lift pump, injection pump, injectors, and all the lines flushed with a GM cleaning product. You could see the difference in the fuel color after the CAT water separator. The Spin On Water Separators may not be the best you can do, but, they do well enough to make a difference. Here is a pic of the corrosion from parts out of the failed IP. Can we say "No Core Credit?" Yeah the big three OEM all in one filter setups won't save you from bad diesel.

 

[TCDiesel]

If you would have had the encapsulating or Aqua-Zorb filter NO repairs necessary, all combustion certified filter allow contamination to pass. They are designed to filter fuel NOT STOP CONTAMINATION. NON- Combustion filter curtail the flow 100% when contaminate at whatever the Maker States.... Thus the Gov does NOT want you stalling on America roadways form plugged filters, The Gov wants safe roadways at the expense of fuel system failure, All those popular filters I see owners use will filter better ,but if you get contaminate fuel faith in the misleading labels will suck up your bank account. WHY BC their design to filter NOT stop contamination. Small amounts will pass and if the fuel is compromise to x degree you will be PO.

 

[Tuesdak]

That explains the compromise we keep seeing then...

 

[Newsa]

My truck has 28,000 miles. It has not had one single drop of fuel ran through it without optilube since i purchased it new. I run 6 oz optilube xdp and 3 oz optilube xl to 3/4 to full tank of fuel.
In the past the power service literature bragged that it was neither an emulsifier or demulsifier. The new literature on their site does not even touch on this anymore since the Cummins recommendation. Power service use to claim it would chemically surround water and pass it safely through the system. What ?! I want both of my water separators to function as designed and strip water from the fuel. This is more easily accomplished when water clumps into larger droplets not when it is dissolved into the fuel and passed through the expensive injection pump and injectors.
What i want with an additive is to gain lubricity, increase cetane, and DEMULSIFY water. If the fuel at the pump is fresh, high quality, and containing the additive package that it should then no additive is needed. But, in todays lazy world where no one cares about my truck like i do i take precautions. On every tank. Why only strip water from one tank. Why not add lubricity to every tank. The injection pump prefers slippery fuel every gallon. Not every other and not every third.
I have heard that the fuel stations are supposed to add additives at point of sale. IMO they can not even put paper in the bathroom or credit card machine. How can i expect them to add chemicals when they would rather be on their cell phone.
I researched this issue and went with stanadyne in 07 when i had two injection pumps fail on my 05. Each pump had lasted about 10,000 miles once the ULSD came out. It lacked lubricity and the seals shrunk in the pump until fuel leaked all over the casing. So i researched while running a quart of transmission fluid through each tank. That lasted three or so tanks before i went with stanadyne. In 12 i got an LML and found optilube had won a test. The test is debated today still. That is when i started running optilube and have in my diesels since 12.
It could be snake oil. But, it makes me feel better and it is cheap. My truck actually sounds much quieter than my brothers truck side by side. We both have 15’s. He runs no additives.
There is no need for additives to make it out of warranty. I expect my plan will benefit me and my truck once in the customer pay period of the ownership experience.
Just pick a plan and stick to it. Nothing is guaranteed.

So, did you have bad experience with Stanadyne? Or you just decided Optilube offered more?

 

[Jared Herzog]

So, did you have bad experience with Stanadyne? Or you just decided Optilube offered more?

I had a great experience with stanadyne. Switched to optilube due to the test. But, personally i think the test was flawed due to how each additive was acquired and the amount ran percentage wise.
The two additives feel and smell the exact same. They dry sticky the exact same way. The ratios i run are similar between the two products. My gut feeling is they are very similar products.
I just had saved some money on the optilube. Then i had an order issue with optilube and they were fast. I mean real fast to fix it and go above and beyond. Even offered to custom mix my xdp and xl to my ratio and package it for me to try. Even dealt with the owner/chemist which was a great experience.

 

[gsbrockman]

My truck has 28,000 miles. It has not had one single drop of fuel ran through it without optilube since i purchased it new. I run 6 oz optilube xdp and 3 oz optilube xl to 3/4 to full tank of fuel.
In the past the power service literature bragged that it was neither an emulsifier or demulsifier. The new literature on their site does not even touch on this anymore since the Cummins recommendation. Power service use to claim it would chemically surround water and pass it safely through the system. What ?! I want both of my water separators to function as designed and strip water from the fuel. This is more easily accomplished when water clumps into larger droplets not when it is dissolved into the fuel and passed through the expensive injection pump and injectors.
What i want with an additive is to gain lubricity, increase cetane, and DEMULSIFY water. If the fuel at the pump is fresh, high quality, and containing the additive package that it should then no additive is needed. But, in todays lazy world where no one cares about my truck like i do i take precautions. On every tank. Why only strip water from one tank. Why not add lubricity to every tank. The injection pump prefers slippery fuel every gallon. Not every other and not every third.
I have heard that the fuel stations are supposed to add additives at point of sale. IMO they can not even put paper in the bathroom or credit card machine. How can i expect them to add chemicals when they would rather be on their cell phone.
I researched this issue and went with stanadyne in 07 when i had two injection pumps fail on my 05. Each pump had lasted about 10,000 miles once the ULSD came out. It lacked lubricity and the seals shrunk in the pump until fuel leaked all over the casing. So i researched while running a quart of transmission fluid through each tank. That lasted three or so tanks before i went with stanadyne. In 12 i got an LML and found optilube had won a test. The test is debated today still. That is when i started running optilube and have in my diesels since 12.
It could be snake oil. But, it makes me feel better and it is cheap. My truck actually sounds much quieter than my brothers truck side by side. We both have 15’s. He runs no additives.
There is no need for additives to make it out of warranty. I expect my plan will benefit me and my truck once in the customer pay period of the ownership experience.
Just pick a plan and stick to it. Nothing is guaranteed.

Actually......the fuel wholesalers are the ones that treat the fuel. No one at any retail fuel station is responsible for the additives....only the wholesaler.

Cannot believe you added transmission fluid into the fuel system of a common rail!!!!

 

[Jared Herzog]

Actually......the fuel wholesalers are the ones that treat the fuel. No one at any retail fuel station is responsible for the additives....only the wholesaler.

Cannot believe you added transmission fluid into the fuel system of a common rail!!!!

The truck ran good with the transmission fluid. It was an 05. Less smoke and ran great. The dealership diesel mechanic had a case near his station. Toyota brand stuff was how it was marked. He told me to run it with every tank or at least once per oil change. He claimed to add it to trucks that were running rough without even telling the customer. Just dumped a quart in. I was shocked. Never heard of burning trans fluid. The tanks were not always full or near full. Just dump a quart in. This is also why i no longer listen to dealers and their “experienced” mechanics.
This got me thinking. During this time i ran two more tanks each with atf+4 one quart per tank while i researched. It is BAD for a common rail. Read about all the terrible things It could cause. From there i got stanadyne and have run something ever since.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

It seems like there's a wealth of opinions on whether any of these additives actually do anything to help. I guess what I'd like to know is whether any of this stuff is detrimental to the CTD? Will using it cause problems down the road?

 

[Killgore]

Well, we'll all agree that some tractor mechanic dumping ATF in the crankcase is both sinful and criminal. I don't believe Cummins would have made their recommendation if there was any chance of a problem. Beyond that, I guess it's like taking vitamins. No doubt there is a benefit for those who need it. I remain OCD and will continue to try and add lubricity, and during the Winter, an anti-gelling formulation.

- Ed

 

[Jared Herzog]

It seems like there's a wealth of opinions on whether any of these additives actually do anything to help. I guess what I'd like to know is whether any of this stuff is detrimental to the CTD? Will using it cause problems down the road?

I do not think adding a chemical package that adds lubricity, improves cetane, and helps remove water could ever hurt a Cummins. These packages “should” already be there in the minimal recommended amount when you buy fresh fuel from a reputable retailer. IMO i do not want to use anything that requires everyone to do there job 100% correctly to provide me with a minimal quality product. Parachute packing comes to mind and is another aspect i would prefer to go above and beyond on.
Diesel fuel these days is pretty crappy in the US. The EPA keeps stripping different chemicals out of the fuel that these trucks need to survive and operate correctly for decades. The oil companies and refineries love this. They can put more work into the refining process so it will cost more to purchase a gallon. Then with less cetane the burn is more incomplete so the truck is less efficient and requires more fuel to do the same work as a truck with the older fuels.
The only way to know if additives work would be to run two identical trucks for 200,000 miles on the same routes doing the same work with the same fuel. Then tear the fuel system apart and inspect. Then do this for all the different fuel retailers and zones and seasonal variations then compile the data. Until then all we have is a scar test which shows the fuel available to us in the US does not meet Bosches minimum recommendation until treated. This scar rating and lack of lubricity and water contamination has been suspected in the demise of many CP4 pumps in the LML Duramax and Powerstroke. We run a more robust CP3 but the fuel still takes its toll.
My current 15 has had every drop treated. My regens are very far apart. I have one every 1000-1500 miles. I have one every few weeks or once a month and they are short. I feel these are mileage and hour related instead of pressure differential related. I get about 1000-1500 mpg on def average. So i am thinking my emission equipment is doing ok.
I use to obsess on fuel additive ratios. To use or not to use. I just decided to help control some variables. The worst that could happen is i am out some money. The best that could happen is i am not out a lot of money. Just do what makes you happy and forget about it.

 

[JR]

The problem is those few ounces you add to 30 gallons of fuel isn't going to save your bacon if you get a truly contaminated batch of fuel. It's been mentioned above repeatedly the best and most effective treatment is filtration, my cousin turned me on to Zinga filters, he has large (1-1/4" in/out ) filters on all his farm tanks, the few times they have had bad fuel the filters plug right off. I believe these are similar or the same to the ones TC has mentioned above, they absolutely work. We have fuel delivered to the house, I've got a smaller version 10 micron Zinga installed in series with a generic 40 micron water seperator, on one occasion I've had water pass right through it and get blocked at the final. They are somewhat pricey filters at roughly 35 a piece but worth every penny.

 

[Jared Herzog]

The problem is those few ounces you add to 30 gallons of fuel isn't going to save your bacon if you get a truly contaminated batch of fuel. It's been mentioned above repeatedly the best and most effective treatment is filtration, my cousin turned me on to Zinga filters, he has large (1-1/4" in/out ) filters on all his farm tanks, the few times they have had bad fuel the filters plug right off. I believe these are similar or the same to the ones TC has mentioned above, they absolutely work. We have fuel delivered to the house, I've got a smaller version 10 micron Zinga installed in series with a generic 40 micron water seperator, on one occasion I've had water pass right through it and get blocked at the final. They are somewhat pricey filters at roughly 35 a piece but worth every penny.

I have been thinking of going this route for a while. Put a 100 gallon transfer tank in the bed then push or pull the fuel through some filters that would plug if contamination was the issue. I would need to know which filters would be best to prevent contamination as i know very little about filters. But i think this would eliminate yet another set of variables for me. The truck would only be filled through the transfer tank. I am in a perpetual search for someone who has done this and have not found anyone who has written about it.

 

[TCDiesel]

The problem is those few ounces you add to 30 gallons of fuel isn't going to save your bacon if you get a truly contaminated batch of fuel. It's been mentioned above repeatedly the best and most effective treatment is filtration, my cousin turned me on to Zinga filters, he has large (1-1/4" in/out ) filters on all his farm tanks, the few times they have had bad fuel the filters plug right off. I believe these are similar or the same to the ones TC has mentioned above, they absolutely work. We have fuel delivered to the house, I've got a smaller version 10 micron Zinga installed in series with a generic 40 micron water seperator, on one occasion I've had water pass right through it and get blocked at the final. They are somewhat pricey filters at roughly 35 a piece but worth every penny.

Yep. their the one I recommend, Even I suck up a pocket of bad fuel in June of 2013 at just a few hundred miles on my truck. the Zinga stop and plugged 100% stopping the contamination from Factory Tank. I had MNBlue suck My Auxiliary Tank dry, and We dip the Ground tank. In MN the Place to Buy diesel is SuperAmerica , Kwik Trip , After that its a crap shoot. All My diesel's are equip with Auxiliary filtration and lift system.

 

[JR]

^^^thats what I've got on my home tank as a final, although I only use the 10 mic instead of the 3. Lennox equipment carries the 10s in stock.

 

[Killgore]

Okay, so I've got an auxiliary bed-mounted tank with a water-separator between it and the OEM tank. I only fill the auxiliary tank and gravity feed the fuel to the OEM. It looks like I need to replace the WS with a Zinga?

 

[JR]

You'd have to do some research on their site, as the filters absorb water the media swells and slowly plug off to the point a high volume pump won't push fuel through. I'm not sure how gravity feed would work through them long term.
Also, they are spin on filters, mine is a 1-12 thread

 

[Killgore]

Thanks, JR. I wish there was someplace we could "like" the comments on a thread. Some of you all are pretty sharp, LOL.

 

[Jared Herzog]

This information on auxiliary tank filtration is what i have been wanting to see for a long time. Thanks for the filter information. I just need to decide between an auxiliary tank in the bed or a much larger tank on a trailer so i can have my own small fill station at home. I would like a 500 or so gallon tank on a trailer then the truck bed stays free. Or multiple tanks on a trailer. Do all the filtration and additives right there before it goes in the truck. Then when it is empty haul the trailer to Buccees and fill it back up.
This has become more pressing with our fuel shortage in Texas earlier this year.

 

[Oz_Ram]

This information on auxiliary tank filtration is what i have been wanting to see for a long time. Thanks for the filter information. I just need to decide between an auxiliary tank in the bed or a much larger tank on a trailer so i can have my own small fill station at home. I would like a 500 or so gallon tank on a trailer then the truck bed stays free. Or multiple tanks on a trailer. Do all the filtration and additives right there before it goes in the truck. Then when it is empty haul the trailer to Buccees and fill it back up.
This has become more pressing with our fuel shortage in Texas earlier this year.

That would work if all you do is relatively short trips from home. Anytime you need to run further than 1/2 tank range you would still have to take a chance filling on the road. Still better odds than not doing it at all.