Fuel boycots don't work?

[rbattelle]

I find it funny that everyone thinks we are in a country that supports free enterprise and capitalism. Actually we are heading in the direction of fascism.

Ostensibly, we do live in a country that supports free enterprise and capitalism. Unfortunatly, it does seem like big business holds too much sway over policymakers (and increasing every year).



-Ryan

 

[BDMiller]

Just to put things in perspective-

The day all hell broke loose & fule prices jumped up 30 or more cents a gallon the local gas stations said they had to raise their prices to cover what it costs to replace the fuel in their tanks. Thus we all get nailed. Once it costs less to replace their fuel they still haven't lowered their prices. This is price gouging & in many cases it is perfectly legal. Why isn't it illegal? I don't know, maybe we voted for the wrong people.



Oil companies are making record profits as was already pointed out but they are also getting huge tax breaks. As I understand it these tax breaks are somehow supposed to help average middle class Americans right? Or are they supposed to help the rich get richer? Regulations are a necessity because of human nature. There are a whole list of things that I am not allowed to do even if they harm no one. Companies need to have the same sort of restraints. Capitolism doesn't work if we allow monopolies or the hoarding of money.

 

[Hohn]

I find it funny that everyone thinks we are in a country that supports free enterprise and capitalism. Actually we are heading in the direction of fascism. Simply put fascism is where large companies run the government. Look at the insurance industry, prescription drug makers. oil companies and health care. When was the last time congress made a decision that helped the little guy? Decisions made in congress always help the big business community not the tax payers. I have to agree with George Carlin when he stated " This illegal facist president and his government".

Whatever happened to a government for the people by the people? The time will come when the people of this nation will finally say enough is enough, hopefully and put an end to this. As for me and my opinion the government of the US is the largest crime organization in the world. I love my country don't get me wrong but things need to change.

Ha! We haven't had gov't "of the people by the people" since before FDR!! *THERE'S* your "fascist" President

 

[SHobbs]

I do not vote Dem or Rep, I choose not to elect another career politician (thief) into office. It is time for fresh blood. Look at Bush right now appointing his college buddies into all kinds of positions all of whom have no clue. Example: FEMA and Katrina and now the idiot on the Supreme court who can't give a direct answer to any question. There is too much money in politics and that needs to change.

Yes we do have a fascist gov. in some form or another as long as insurance co. , big oil, health care and drug makers to name a few have the upper hand in Wash.

I say let's storm the white house and take our country back. I'm sure our founding fathers have turned over so many times that the hinges on their coffins are loose now.



I wonder what would happen if an entire state didn't file their taxes at the end of the year or even a large city. I know it's a pipe dream. I wonder how many people know that F. I. C. A is being taken out of their check without even being a permanent thing. It was originally to pay for WWII which has been paid for allready. I have not found anything on this being a perm. thing just a greedy gov. digging into our pockets. I know I am tired of seeing over 1k sucked outta my check every 2 weeks.



Time for a revolt the way I see it.

 

[JCrockett]

The bigger impact on the current rise in GASOLINE and DIESEL prices is refining capacity in the US, which took a 25% hit during and after Katrina.



Edit:

According to another post on here (VW Demand) quoting the engergy department in a Rueters article, we lost 10% of refining capacity to Katrina. It still holds true that refining capacity is a large part of the current pricing in the US, along with many other factors.

So lets open up ANWR! And what about all the natural gas up here! They are just burning it off up there as a byproduct of the drilling process. What a waste!

 

[Utah Willie]

Fuel boycotts don't work?

First, as I recall, it was OPEC that raised the price of crude and the refiners followed suit to keep ahead of the game. The world demand for the crude is the responsible factor. China, being one of the new high users is using that energy to produce inexpensive products for our consumption. Maybe we should boycott them and they wouldn't use so much oil



My fiancee has an oil well and is getting about 10% less for the sweet crude than is OPEC. The company that did the drilling and collecting takes a percentage which accounts for the difference. The up side is when oil prices increase, she is better able to afford me.



Bottom line..... buy oil stock and get in on the "outrageous" profits. :-laf

 

[klenger]

Bottom line..... buy oil stock and get in on the "outrageous" profits.

That's the american way. Sure hope that some of my mutual funds are in oil.

 

[J&LRam]

boycottin' one company till their down will spell doom for that company and have no effect on fuel prices. Crude is at record levels and as long as crude is high we pay at the pump for it. Supply and demand theory is just that, in todays crude oil manipulated market. Crude is used as leverage at the international level in world politics. You **** off the folks with the most crude and they fight back with higher crude prices. Course folks in big oil in this country are sellin' our crude at world prices even if it came[future] from ANSWAR or right here in the Oklahoma oil patch [present.

Maybe thats the reason current adm. keeps pissin' them off. One thing for sure if we keep puttin' big oil back in Washington we keep payin' more at the pump..... JIM

 

[DSpencer]

MY opinion of people who use free enterprise to make more money than they are worth would include actors, most professional sports atheletes as well as coaches and owners, most uniion employees, automotive manufacturers, boat manufacturers, elected officials, oil companies, power companies, financial companies... ... . most everybody that can which would include most everyone that can.



My point is that some people see it as taking advantage of us when so many of us support it when it comes to ourselves. How many of the above listed(I hoped to include every field of work) would balk at increasing costs if they could. I work in a union environment and if the union lost its ability to demand over and above pay than the equal value of their work, they would not survive. Most people stay in the union to get the pay associated with union jobs. I don't think professional athletes or stock brokers or electric companies would think they charge more than they should, but they do.

If this is all this thread is about then yes, the oil companies are like MOST people in the US and the WORLD.



JMHO

 

[DF5152]

the way i see the problem is the people that make the oil control supply and therfore control the price. If one refinery is capable of making 10,000 gallons a day and cuts back production the supply will drop the demand is then artificially inflated and the price goes up. Also when government allows exxon and mobil to combine they are creating a monopoly and limiting the competition. this is a major problem in this country. there is no true competition any more. if you look the company names that are still there, but they are owned by a parent company and therefore creates a monopoly. one example is cablevision. the most recent are the mergers of cell service now there are only 3 major companies as opposed the the 5 there were less than a year ago. another example would be microsoft. It is also tough for govenment to regulate major financial contributors. other than microsoft these are not true monopolies but they are close.

 

[JayWm]

I doubt you can boycott an oil company and cause them any problems. The reason... branded oil companies like Chevron, Texaco, Shell, etc sell their fuel to their branded stations first. Whether those stations are company owned or independently owned does not matter. Any excess fuel is then sold on the open market. Often referred to as "the rack" or "rack pricing"

This is where true independents get their fuel. These would be guys like "Bob's Gas N' Go" Refiners WILL sell all that they have whether its through their branded outlets or on the wholesale market. Often times refiners can make more on rack gas than selling to branded outlets.



The better question is why aren't our politicians investigating this? I can give a bunch of reasons. Here in California the state is enjoying quite a little increase in sales tax revenues. Do you think they are gonna say boo to anyone about this "little" increase?



There are no easy solutions. In California we can thank the environmentalists for requiring a special blend of fuel that is more expensive to refine. They have also stood in the way of any new refineries being built. The oil companies will build more refineries... as soon as the gov't puts the environmentalists in check and gives the oil companies some guarantees that more legislation will not require more various blends of fuels. Refiners are no different than any other production company. They want stable demand, stable costs, etc. Refineries are more efficient when they can produce the same fuel for everyone, not just California, or any other state with its own special requirement.



Jay

 

[KB0OU]

One way to reduce demand of oil is to slow down, try driving the speed limit, you almost get run over. Just imagine if all truckers slowed down to 60 or 65 miles an hour, just that would reduce demand, I was going down I-44 the other day and to keep pace with the truckers and others I was running 80 mph. You all know that fuel mileage is much lower on any vehicle at 80 than at 60.

If I was running an oil company I would get all the profits I could, especially when everyone out there is driving so fast and driving fuel loving vehicles.

Take a trip to Europe, what do you drive in Europe, I don't see them driving as fast there, except maybe on the good German roads.

Why can't I buy a small diesel car like they sell in Europe?????????



DO YOUR PART DRIVE 60.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

One way to reduce demand of oil is to slow down, try driving the speed limit, you almost get run over. Just imagine if all truckers slowed down to 60 or 65 miles an hour, just that would reduce demand, I was going down I-44 the other day and to keep pace with the truckers and others I was running 80 mph. You all know that fuel mileage is much lower on any vehicle at 80 than at 60.

If I was running an oil company I would get all the profits I could, especially when everyone out there is driving so fast and driving fuel loving vehicles.

Take a trip to Europe, what do you drive in Europe, I don't see them driving as fast there, except maybe on the good German roads.

Why can't I buy a small diesel car like they sell in Europe?????????



DO YOUR PART DRIVE 60.

In general principle, what you say is probably correct...



But what I, and many others object to, is ARTIFICIAL and manipulated circumstances that tend to FORCE the general population to adopt defensive tactics they would not otherwise have to!



Some will argue that dwindling fuel supplies JUSTIFY current methods, and that if force in the form of financial "punishment" at the pump accomplishes the goal of conservation, it's worth the pain.



I *might* generally agree to that, IF people in high places SHARED in the pain, and weren't so greedily profiting from the pain THEY are inflicting upon others!



While government control or regulation of oil company profits might seem harmful, I sure don't see where a mandated requirement that a certain percentage of oil profits MUST be allocated towards development and distribution of alternate fuel supplies - Biodiesel and such as solar power generation. Those 2 alone could go a long ways to soften dependency of foreign fuel supplies - and a far better fuel solution that just a fatter paycheck to big oil and it's supporters...



Then, when the oil companies proffits rise, we ALL win - not just the oil executives and their immediate stockholders!

 

[rbattelle]

The oil companies will build more refineries... as soon as the gov't puts the environmentalists in check and gives the oil companies some guarantees that more legislation will not require more various blends of fuels.

I've become convinced that the special blending is one of the keystones of high pump prices. If the federal government mandated a national blend of all fuels I think we'd see a rapid drop in price.



-Ryan

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I wonder why it is that EPA can forcefully dictate fuel composition changes, regardless of costly hazards to consumers, and which those consumers foot the bill...



And, also dictate expensive vehicle emission changes that automakers MUST incorporate (and customers pay for!), yet be totally silent as to dictating that OIL COMPANIES must begin incorporating steady increases in percentages of alternative fuels at the pump, either as a separate product, or incorporated into existing supplies?



Why not a mandated 5% a year increase in stuff like biodiesel beginning in, say, 2008 - to give oil companies time to gear up and get organized...



NAHHhhh - way too sensible to even consider...

 

[rbattelle]

Well, Gary, let's be honest here: the EPA has it's own agenda. I'm convinced it has something to do with a desire to see every motor vehicle in the US banned, every power plant eliminated, and every person living in a small pueblo made from naval lint. Once they achieve that, they'll begin restricting breathing because it produces greenhouse gases.



-Ryan

P. S. - yes, I'm very angry with the EPA at the moment. Mostly over the CJ-4 oil standard.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Well, Gary, let's be honest here: the EPA has it's own agenda. I'm convinced it has something to do with a desire to see every motor vehicle in the US banned, every power plant eliminated, and every person living in a small pueblo made from naval lint. Once they achieve that, they'll begin restricting breathing because it produces greenhouse gases.



-Ryan

P. S. - yes, I'm very angry with the EPA at the moment. Mostly over the CJ-4 oil standard.

WELL, Presidents as they see fit, gather various individuals and heads of state together to establish policies and work towards the common good of our societies - usually in the name of peace and elimination of human suffering.



YET, with so much hanging in the balance that directly related to the basic need for energy, heads of state seeming are doing NOTHING to create an "Oil/energy summit" with "Big Oil" leadership as our basic economy slowly goes down the drain!



Everything our country has or IS revolves upon energy - foreigners gripe about our high use of oil, even as they eat the food and wear the clothes that energy produces and transports. This is far more than Joe Blow going on vacation, or running that ski boat up at the lake, it's about farmers cultivating fields, growing crops and getting it to market.



Greatly reduce our economical access to energy, and WE quickly become another third World country - and a pushover for countries that formerly wouldn't even dream of challenging us.



So what advice and help do we get from our country's leadership?



This:



http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/12808568.htm

 

[brods]

LOL, yeah the EPA sucks. . who needs to breath!



Has anyone done a complete cradle to grave cost study on biodiesel? IIRC after taking everything into account, making methanol (the last great replacement for foreign oil) from corn used more oil than it replaced!



Anyway, how come no one asks why the government relaxed the CAFE standards. And worse yet why did they allow vehicles clearly meant for personal and family transportation to be classified as trucks which are subject to less stringent standards?



Doesn't anyone wonder why, given all our modern technology, vehicles still get such dismal fuel mileage? During the 70's oil crunch regenerative braking and hybrid vehicles with flywheels, batteries, etc. were spoken of. What happened? Prices of fuel went down and we all went back to sleep? Shame on us! The american consumer is too cheap and nearsighted, which is why the government had/has to step up. Too bad they dropped the ball on this one, BUT, we only have ourselves to blame because it is EXACTLY what we wanted!