Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Fuel Delivery Valves

[RChesney]

I'm still new to the world of diesels as far as maintenance. I recently attended an outdoor show and passed a diesel power booth. I have a 1998 12V with automatic and about 75K on it. Never had any real problems. Asking about power, gentleman pointed me to aftermarket injectors in the 45hp range. Well, snooping around I found a set of 45hp diesel delivery valves for a lot less than the injectors. Snagged those up and installed them with the help of a manual. Gave a good shot of power increase, good shot of black smoke, but engine lost it's smoothness and it seemed like the torque converter had trouble staying locked in. Mileage also went down the tubes to around 14mpg normal driving. Trailer towing was the big disappointment as it did not seem to do as good as stock.

So, now I'm back to the stock delivery valves. Cleaned them real good with carb cleaner and reinstalled. Engine is much smoother now than it was, will see what the mileage is.

Did I take the wrong road with these delivery valves? They were advertised as "45 HP increase". No idea about sizes. They are Bosch made so I trust the name. Probably not my first mistake, but now I'm out the $250 for the delivery valves. Anyone have any good/bad experience with these?

 

[cumminsnbabes]

Hi,



I'm also new to the diesel world. And I am contemplating delivery valves as well as 370 injectors. I'm not sure, but i would think that the dv's coupled with injectors would not cause you to lose a significant amount of mileage because the injectors would create better fuel atomization. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.



I'm surprised the dv's caused your fuel mileage to drop that much. When I added my 60 hp cam plate I didn't lose any fuel mileage as long as i kept my foot out of it. 18-19mpg when driven responsibly, 16-17 when showing off. Also, the plate significantly improved my towing power. Above 60mph an 8000# load was barely noticeable.



I'm not sure why your dv's caused a mileage drop while my plate didn't.



Like I said earlier, I'm a newbie and somebody correct me if any of my comments are out of line. I don't want to be passing along false information.



Miles

 

[bmoeller]

RChesney, what are the numbers on the box(es) they came in? If you decide to get rid of them and depending on which ones they are, I may be interested in them.



What is your driving style? Aggressive or pokey? That usually is the biggest factor with mileage. If you are using the new found power, it will usually go down. Each of my mods, either kept the current mileage or it went up. The way I'm setup, my engine doesn't really care how you drive it. The turbo may be part of it. It gets better mileage running it faster than it did stock.

 

[Bloomy]

RChesney

I can't offer much info on why your mileage would decrease with the other DV's, but depending on what you put in the difference might not be that much as it is. The 98 12v came with 181 DV's in the 215 pump. Most upgrades are either laser cut DV's or in my case 191's. There isn't much difference between a 181 and 191 and certainly not 45 hp. The difference between my stock 131's (1995 12v) and 191's is around 30 hp. Now, did you make a mistake? Not really, but there are other options to increase power for a little less money. A cam plate like an 10, 11 or 12 would net the same to considerably more power for about $200 with some adjustability. A #10 would probably be to much for your stock transmission, but the 11 and 12 probably wouldn't. The next item to do preferably at the same time as a cam plate is a 3000 rpm or 4000rpm governor spring kit (GSK). The GSK changes the raises the defueling RPM in the pump. This made a drastic difference in my truck being that it is a standard. I was able to rev much higher so when I shift from 3rd to 4th I would be able to stay in the torque curve instead of dropping below it.



There is a lot of information on the site. Do some searches for GSK and feel free to send me a pm.



Thomas

 

[Cooker]

A #10 plate is a "preferred" plate for a stock auto transmission because of the fuel curve that it has.



You probably purchase 191 D-Valves. Possibly 022's. What are the last three digits on the head of the D-Valve?



Bigger D-Valves definitely hurt MPG's but generally not dramatically like the appeared to in your case.



I suspect your timing may be a bit off if your truck ran that poorly with larger delivery valves.



181 delivery valves as found in the 180 pumps (like your 1998 automatic truck) and 215 pumps are a very decent D-Valve IMHO and unless you are searching for big HP I would stick with them.

 

[RChesney]

Thanks for the info. I swapped back to the standard delivery valves. Noticed that the torque converter would slip again after locked up if I put my foot in it. Don't like that at all, causes them to give up. I may take a crack at the timing. I've been a mechanic most of my life on small engines, marine outboards, and regular gas engines. Got a book, can't be that difficult. I've never had the timing checked and the Dodge dealer only does what I ask. That's not much at their labor costs!

Ron

 

[RChesney]

Numbers on the valves are 191. I wouldn't say I'm a "pokey" driver, but don't have my foot in it either all the time. Have to drive to and from work each day through town and stoplights, also have 3 miles of gravel road to home each way. The power they offered was nice, just a little concerned about the torque converter slip. I have the standard automatic and even after the converter "lockup" occurs at around 45 mph, if I gave it throttle I could see and hear the rpms increase but was not going faster at the same rate. That's probably pushing for trouble. I haul hay each year for the horses at about 3 tons per load plus another ton for the trailer up a pretty steep hill. Don't want to blow something that I shouldn't.

 

[Cooker]

Unfortunately, if you have a stock transmission and it is slipping now when locked up I would start saving your money for a new one, especially if you plan on towing.

 

[bmoeller]

Yep. Cooker is right. Start saving. My stocker got so bad, I couldn't even drive into a headwind, going up hill on the interstate. Started to shake the whole truck. Made it to and from that trip. but had me pretty worried. I was 6hr from home.



If you want to get rid of the 191 DV, shoot me a PM. I'm interested in them.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

181s were just fine for 800 hp.

 

[Jschafer]

What DVs are stock on a 94 160 pump?

 

[budctdca]

me 3, Im interested in the DV's.

As to the mileage problem, it is my understanding with any internal combusiton engine, if you just increase fuel (DV's) and do nothing for air movement, you will not get complete burn= more power, more smoke, less MPG's. Efficiency is a term that comes to mind. If you match air movement modifications with fuel delivery mods, you should not see a decrease in MPG's, but only an increase in power. Smoke comes from insufficient boost levels to match fuel delivery. As for a timing slip, I doubt it with 75K on it, although it might be retarded from the factory?

The transmission problem is a plague us A/T guys must deal with, personally with 225K (second owner for 15K) I have no problem with lock up, but I don't tow much, I would suggest a torque convertor and valve body before clutch material from your stocker blows the whole thing and you won't have a good valve body core to deal with...

Luke

 

[bmoeller]

What DVs are stock on a 94 160 pump?

Uh, IIRC, they are 131s. But don't hold me to it.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Uh, IIRC, they are 131s. But don't hold me to it.

160 pump 131's

175 pump 151's

180 and 215 pump 181's



This should be correct!



Depending on the setup DV's will always make more power(most people) as the deliver more fuel but the setup has to burn it, I've never dyno'd with my pump, EDM's and 181s' verses . 022's but the . 022's will definitely flow more fuel.



Jim

 

[WBerry]

what size dv in 96 pump?

 

[Jim Fulmer]

181's auto or manual.

 

[Cooker]

what size dv in 96 pump?

Stick or Auto (and is it a CA model or not)? This determines what pump your have on your truck.



It doesn't matter much with 1996 though since both pumps used in 1996, 180's and 215's, both had 181 delivery valves.