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Archived Overheating after water pump replacement

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HI Guys,

My work truck, a 1997 Freightliner MT 45 (step van....5.9 cummins engine, 4 speed Allison ...19K gvw, 285K miles) is running VERY rough.....BY running very rough I mean it'll barely pull 15-25 MPH on the road at nearly full throttle up seemingly minor grades....all the while laying down a clout of whitish / bluish smoke (the truck does not burn or leak oil).

Yesterday it ran so badly I thought It would die out in the middle of the road but luckily it never did....I managed to limp it home....

The truck used to run pretty powerfully (able to climb one hill in particular at 55 MPH but seemingly over time performance has slowly deteriorated to the point that it only does about 45 in a lower gear if I really push it up the same hill).

Anyways, one thing I will mention is that the truck had for awhile a "ticking sound" .....I feared that it was an exhaust manifold leak (i.e. hard to fix because of rusty bolts) but it was later discovered that one of the injectors had a leaky seal and an injector seal kit made the noise go away.

Around the same time as the injector "fix" (a few months ago while it was warm out), the truck seemed to develop a slight "miss" if you push the throttle hard around 55 MPH to maintain speed on grades (in all fairness the truck used to have a slight "miss" and whitish smoke screen during colder weather but it ususlly when away after about a half mile or so....just seemingly never at high speeds).....backing off the throttle made the miss go away but of course you lose speed doing so...It sometimes makes me think that all the return lines we had to take off to fix the one injector may have caused something to get messed up somewhere (i.e. fuel leak BUT everything is dry so I assume no leaks).

An interesting side note is this....historically, the missing and cold weather rough running combined with the smoke screen seemingly only happened when it was cold out (like fall / winter)....warm weather and I never laid a smoke screen down and seemingly never had a "miss"....Also the "miss" and rough running used to only be when the engine was cold or low temp. / low temp out and typically a half mile or so of driving and the truck was good for the rest of the day ...when the engine warmed up it was more or less fine....now the engine can be at full operating temp and miss / stumble and lay down whitish smoke.

A friend of mine suggested I change the fuel filter....I did that and to my horror this is what I found (see pic)....I have no idea what the "gunk" on the edges blocking the small holes along the filter rim is but it covered all but one and a half of the small holes.

FWIW, the pleats inside the filter as viewed from the big threaded center hole appeared to be clean.

I did put in 40 OZ approximately of diesel fuel treatment (I think it was power service in the gray bottle from Wal Mart)....I only put this in on the last trip where the truck was more or less unusable.

I did check for fuel leaks but no real drips / wet spots were seen.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Andrew

2-20-15 016.jpg
 
so we are to assume this is a 12valve? fuel system doesn't look good could be algae . Curious to see if the power service helps. wait for someone with 12v experience to chime in.
 
HI,

Yes...1997 P Pumped 12 valve 5.9 cummins diesel engine....

As far as the "gunk" off filter....It is a very dark colored stuff....almost reminds me of partially dry silicon but of course not sticky but I didn't actually touch the stuff other than to move it a bit later with my knife.

As a bit of additional information , I think there is only 1 fuel filter on the truck....mounted on a bracket off the radiator...There is no fuel heater as far as I know since I have read that the fuel heater is sometimes a cause of.....I am wondering if there is a pre screen filter somewhere before the main fuel filter....I suppose I could crawl under the vehicle sometime but right now we are getting alot of snow so I may try that at some later point.

Thanks!

Andrew
 
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Definately looks like algae. Not sure of yours but on some there is a screen in the tank on the pick up tube. Depending on the severity it may require tank removal for cleaning or some very high doses of Biocide to kill the critters and a lot of filters to keep changing until the problem clears up.

Dave
 
Algae issues ? aarg....

I guess I'll have to look into biocides etc...

You know I was thinking....could I simply add a little gasoline to kill the algae?...I mean I have never heard of gasoline having algae in it so maybe that is because it is deadly to algae?....Of course I wouldn't get carried away with it....maybe a gallon or so in a relatively full diesel tank (if I do this how should I add the gas to the tank?....I was thinking running the truck so the fuel circulates then slowly adding the gasoline in (so it doesn't "pool" in one spot in the tank and get used by the engine in a fatal "gulp" ).

Anyways, a diesel "guru" friend of mine suggested buying an overflow valve for my truck and a lift pump since he said these two things may cause my problem as well.....what do you think ? (being paranoid) I did order these two parts from NAPA (worse come to worse I can use them on my 1997 dually as backups if that doesn't solve my Freightliner's problems).....What do you think?....I did some reading on overflow valve issues and lift pump issues BUT the major difference I can see with most people's experiences with those parts is that my truck has NEVER stalled totally....just run very rough / very little power / smoke.

On the other hand, since my problem seemed to come to a head rather suddenly (I've had symptoms of problems when cold for awhile but it just all of a sudden with this last cold snap almost killed my truck)....I think maybe algae is not the sole source of my problems (that would seem to be a more gradual issue?)?

Thanks

Andrew
 
HI,

Thanks for the reply guys....I was curious tho....where exactly is the fuel heather located?....I want to check that screen if possible.....FWIW my fuel filter was Freightliner factory located off the radiator mount and all I see is a fuel filter (that I recently changed).

Also, by transfer pump do you mean the lift pump with the plunger to prime the fuel system after its been opened up for whatever reason?

Thanks for the links.....good reading...i'll see if I can get some algacide locally....

Andrew
 
Your engine might not have the prefilter or the fuel heater. On the Dodge it is mounted next to the lift pump and connected with a 90 degree elbow to the lift pump. There are pictures in the link I sent. Yes, the lift pump is sometimes referred to as the transfer pump.
 
Look in your fuel tank. You may need to drop and clean out the fuel tanks as I went through this. Throw away the infected fuel. Again THROW IT AWAY!!! It's not worth replacing all the injection system parts from and including the fuel tank, IP, and injectors over trying to burn it without a expensive service called "fuel polishing". With new fuel use power service Bio Kleen or Lucas Biomedic Diesel Fuel Sterilizer. Gasoline will kill the bugs - but your injection system is already at risk of failure from water and bug grit. The build up you are looking at is dead bugs. Hit the bad fuel with the bug killer and it will turn black and more bugs drop out and clump.

They do make fuel system cleaner you can use. Anything past the water separator may be ok as I found on modified systems. Lift pumps may be ruined however.

You will need at least 2 sets of spare filters to be carried on the truck and constant use of biocide in the fuel. The biocide is really cheap.
 
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Have they cut the fuel with Kerosene due to the cold weather??? How cold has it been???

That happens to southern trucks when they venture up here in the winter. Once they load up with cut fuel and head North the Kerosene knocks the scum loose that has been lurking in the tank. Seen it a hundred times. Stuff in the filters will look just like yours does.

I think I have your vin somewhere, I will see if your chassis has another filter somewhere.
 
When was the last time that filter was changed? It looks rusty in the picture, not something I would expect on a southern truck. I agree with the above comments, shock your tank PRONTO with some algaecide and keep a couple of fuel filters with the truck at all times in case you plug up while your on the road. You will go through some filters as this stuff goes through your system so have some on hand. Once you get the bug, its dang hard to get rid of. Gonna have to be diligent and treat your fuel consistently to get rid of the crap. Sometimes dropping the tank really is the best solution.

Does Virginia mandate the use of biodiesel?



Have they cut the fuel with Kerosene due to the cold weather??? How cold has it been???

Mike, being he is from Virginia I would bet money K1 is not blended into diesel. Outside of cold environments like Maine most areas don't blend their fuel anymore. Winterized #2 is much more common. Even a friend in northern MN tells me they are running the state required "winterized" B5
 
HI Guys,

Thanks for all the suggestions and input....I'll post my findings here in the event that it helps somebody in a similar situation as mine.

Anyways here is what I did and here is what happened:

1) The first step was obviously to replace the large fuel filter I had in the pic above....That unfortunately did not seem to do anything...the truck still "chugged" off the line
and would smoke if pushed hard (well not even hard after awhile.....had me creeping along at times worrying about stalling out and not being able to restart)

2) I called a diesel shop in Richmond that had rebuilt an injection pump on my other truck....Interestingly, their suggestion, and according to them the cure for 95% of P pump issues was to replace a piece they called an overflow valve (located in the front of the injector pump close on the side closer to the engine block....looks like a bolt throough a nut holding on a banjo type fuel fitting)....Appears if the spring breaks (or weakens) inside this piece, not enough fuel pressure is maintained inside the pump and fuel starving issues arise....The bolt and sealing rings cost me $110.00 after tax....Since they saw the pic they also suggested a biocide (I think I ended up using powerservice from wal mart applied at double the recommended strength)....I did carry an extra fuel filter and a gallon of diesel fuel with me now (in case the filter plugs, I can change filters and prefill the new filter and hopefully be on my way).

The diesel shop also suggested I look for other filters / screens in the fuel system.

I replaced the bolt (easy to do) , and afterwards started up the truck and drove it immediately without chugging or smoke!...Wow....I began to get cocky and went for a test drive....Disappointingly, although the truck ran well at low speeds, at higher speeds ....say around 45 MPH and pushed hard the truck would miss a little and smoke a bit (not black fuel smoke but the not so good grayish bluish smoke)...not real bad but not good either (I mean bad things rarely "cure" themselves).

Actually it was at this point I used the biocide and fuel treatment not earlier even tho I mentioned it earlier.

3) The truck is usable at this point but still had me worry since it did still have a miss at higher speeds....with that I looked for more fuel filters / screens from the tank to the big filter located at the front of the truck by the radiator....nothing was found....I thought about dropping the fuel tank BUT being that I just had filled it up that thought was far from appealing.

4) Some people suggested a weak lift pump (mounted on the engine) could be the problem.....since I never replaced it (no telling when it was done last), I decided to give it a try....I got a new lift pump and to my surprise, when trying to remove the old one I glimpsed at a black fuel filter looking thing.....WOW there WAS another fuel filter!...in exactly the same spot as the factory fuel filter on mt 97 pickup....With that I removed the old one (which I have never personally changed in the many years I have owned the truck), got a new one and put everything back together(new lift pump too)....appears the factory fuel filter was used as a secondary fuel filter from the large one that Freightliner had mounted by the radiator....

5) The truck now runs like a champ!....NO AM chugging, no smoking under heavy load etc....wow good as new for another few hundred thousand miles!

In the end I really hate to say I don't know of any one component that did it all but (in combination) everything together brought my truck back to running well.

Thanks for all the input from everybody here and I hope in the future somebody can benefit from my experiences (FWIW my step van has about 280K miles....unknown what the previous owner did with the truck so I am assuming everything was old until I replaced things).

Andrew
 
Andrew thanks for the update. wondering if if was the low pressure side all along especially finding the stock filter afterwards .
 
In the end I really hate to say I don't know of any one component that did it all but (in combination) everything together brought my truck back to running well.

That is usually the case when a person just throws parts at a problem until something sticks. All the information you posted is in Joe G's writeup that I provided to you. Testing the overflow valve, testing the lift pump, etc. Someone saw you coming for the OFV too. http://www.genosgarage.com/BOSCH-FU...V/productinfo/2-417-413-101-KIT/#.VPO3OOHVsf8 It's good that you got it fixed though.
 
HI,

Good question,,,, I am not sure how to scientifically diagnose things but I am sure at least a fuel pressure gauge would be handy to "see" the how well the system is working or not working....Of course maybe having gone through this whole situation I can simply use seat of the pants "feel" and visual clues (smoke etc) to see when the fuel system is acting up.

As an aside, I did read some more postings here on DTR and hope that if something like this rears its head up on one of my other trucks at least I would have a good starting point to begin with...

As, I look back at this whole episode and I am soooo thankful that the relatively simple (and cheap...relatively speaking) things took care of my running issues.....I was really dreading thinking about having to replace injectors or having the injector pump looked at!

I am continuing to use biocide for at least 4 more tankfuls....I am hoping that will be long enough to make sure everything in the fuel system is dead...I am also carrying an extra primary fuel filter and filter wrench with me in case the primary filter starts to clog on me at an inopportune time (hmm is there ever a good time for a filter to clog?)

I also have a gallon of diesel in a fuel can so I can fill the large filter without having to manually prime the systm to fill the filter (I'd imagine that would take a long while....plus that would save wear and tear on the starter and hopefully, keep me from having to bleed injectors etc...).

Andrew
 
I don't think that you have really solved your problems. The root of your issues is likely gunk (water, algae, etc) in the fuel tank. I would start with cleaning the fuel tank and pickup screen. Biocide will kill stuff in the tank, but not remove it. The dead stuf remaining in the tank will eventually be a good home for new critters. Look for the source of the water intrusion into the tank. Top of the tank is a good place to start. My experience is that water in diesel is almost never delivered in the fuel, but leaks into the tank at the vehicle.
 
My experience is that water in diesel is almost never delivered in the fuel, but leaks into the tank at the vehicle.

That would be exactly opposite of 99% of the rest of the population. Water into the fuel tank from a problem is rare, almost always a self induced problem. The bulk of the incidents of water int he fuel are from the fuel tanks. Lets face it, stations are in the business to sell fuel not cater to customer needs by making things as good as possible. ULSD is highly suscpetible to water contmaination whihc just compounds the problem.

Blank gunk on the filters with ULSD is not always any kind of contamination, frequently it is just the asphaltenes being cooked out of the fuel. Any system that moves a lot of fuel thru the hihg pressure pumps and returns it to the tank is going to get a lot of that showing. Filter changes on a schedule are a must or it will plug a filter. Iy weill also plug up baskets and any other filters by accretion over time.
 
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