Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Fuel line frozen...again...and again.

[concrete-steve]

Well, it happened again on my 2000, 24V. About 5 weeks back I got some fuel with water in it. The next day the truck died (temp in mid teens). Changed the lift pump, but temp had reached low 30's by then and I drove it home fine. Used Howe's for the next tankful, but 2 weeks later we got teens again and truck died. Tarps and heaters solved this. I then installed a Fass high volume pump, which gives me 22psi at idle to be sure my lift pumps weren't the issue (yes I have more than one lift pump on the shelf). Haven't had real cold nights until I went to Vermont and we hit zero. Fuel pressure gauge indicated the fuel line was frozen, so more tarps and heaters and I got it going again. I've been dosing the fuel heavy for the last 3 tankfulls to try to get the water completely out.



So, my questions are, is it possible the fuel pickup sits just off the bottom of the tank and keeps picking up water? What's the best way to get the water out? Do I drop the tank and clean it out really well? Is there any other additive that will remove the water?

Steve

 

[ALepley]

Are you getting fuel at a particular fuel stop? Having a small percentage off water isnt going to freeze your lines up especially with additive. Its seems you either have water entering the tank or your getting some bad fuel. Im leaning more towards you might be getting water in your tank. Maybe a seam on the tank is bad and allowing water to enter.

 

[concrete-steve]

I get 95% of my fuel at a TA, which is where I fuel up 3 other trucks and never have a problem. I got fuel 1 time at a local station and this seems to be when the problems started. I am going to drop the tank this week and I'll look at the seams carefully. I'm just thinking out loud... . we haven't had any rain/wet roads here recently and I fueled up at this TA right before I left. Also dosed heavily with the anticipation of cold temps.

 

[ALepley]

I get 95% of my fuel at a TA, which is where I fuel up 3 other trucks and never have a problem. I got fuel 1 time at a local station and this seems to be when the problems started. I am going to drop the tank this week and I'll look at the seams carefully. I'm just thinking out loud... . we haven't had any rain/wet roads here recently and I fueled up at this TA right before I left. Also dosed heavily with the anticipation of cold temps.

I can tell you this. I used to work on over the road tractors for Barr-Nunn Transportation. They had a huge fuel network with TA. We had numerous problems with there fuel. I have never seen so much water/diesel algae in fuel in my life. I would stick with smaller local companys. I understand that may be hard to do as far as smaller companys taking comdata cards or whatever you use to handle paying for fuel.

 

[Midnite]

This doesn't help you with your freeze-up issues, but you should consider changing the spring in your FASS out to a weaker one--22 psi is too much pressure for a VP44. I'd drop it to 15-16.

Good luck,
Mike

 

[KKlingbeil]

Back to the water in fuel issue... From what I know and have read, power service does disipate water. I would assume that howes and others would too, but dont know that. Anyway, you as you said you need to get the water OUT. So run very high concentrations of power service. I would run 4 times the normal recomended at a minimum. Try to run the tank pretty low and then fill with good fuel and more power service.



Are you running straight number 2? or blended?

 

[concrete-steve]

Mike,

I didn't know I could change the spring on the Fass DDRP pump. I just checked the instructions and there is nothing in them about too much pressure. I'll email the manufacturer and ask the question. Thanks for the heads up.



I ran the tank real low on the previous tankful and dosed heavy on the Howes. The truck seems to be ok with temps in the 20's and even upper teens at night, but zero degrees was too cold. I want to be sure I don't have this problem ever again, so the only sure solution (in my mind) is to drop the tank and know I cleaned all the moisture out. If I knew for sure that something else would solve the problem, believe me I would do it. I am not looking forward to dropping/draining the fuel tank.



I am running the fuel from the local TA truck stop, don't know what grade it is. I run 3 other trucks out of this place and never had a problem, so the fuel seems to be good.

 

[Jeff Knight]

Maybe power service 911 in the red bottle might help. . Jeff

 

[AH64ID]

Are you positive its a water issue? That would be a HUGE amount of water!!



What if the fuel is gelling?

 

[concrete-steve]

I haven't seen or used the 911 power service, maybe I'll give it a try... just don't want to go through being stranded again. Kklingbeil suggested this also, so might be worth a shot.



I am fairly certain the fuel didn't gell. I had so much fuel treatment in the tank and when I had the filter out while trying to get the thing primed, I saw no signs of gelling. I think the ice was in the rubber line which feeds the lift pump. I had someone watching the pressure gauge while he bumped the starter and as I wiggled/twisted this line he saw the gauge jump then stop like a piece of ice was in the line. I can't say I know for sure what the deal is, but that one bad load of fuel started this and it's driving me nuts that this is still going on.



I still don't know if the fuel pickup sits on the very bottom of the tank or up just a bit. If it is up, water could sit on the bottom of the tank and be picked up as the fuel sloshes around during driving.

 

[KKlingbeil]

If it was right on the bottom, then it couldn't suck very well. I would assume its at least 1/4" above the bottom, and 1/4" of water across the whole tank would be a gallon or more... . I dont think you could get that much water in one tank of fuel. Be carefull with the power service 911. It is high in alcohol to ungel gelled fuel, and is hard on pumps, as it has very low lube. Good luck!!

 

[JFulford]

Fuel Module

The fuel pickup is at the bottom of the fuel tank module. There is a screen that is attached to the bottom. The whole thing is spring loaded so the screen piece sits on the bottom of the tank and the screen holds the inlet off the bottom. I can't remember how far down the inlet sits in the screen piece, but it doesn't touch the tank itself. This is a picture of a fuel tank module from a 1999 truck.

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[SRath]

If you regularly fuel a fleet of trucks at a particular fuel stop, it would be a good idea to occassionally pay to have that fuel tested and analyzed. Especially if you run into a problem like this. Any station can get a bad load of fuel or develop a problem with a tank or even have someone not get the lid back on properly.

Many times, it depends as much on when you fueled as where you fueled. If you timed your fueling to when the underground tank was very low on fuel, (and how would you know?), you might be getting the water and contaminants all underground tanks have in higher concentration at the bottom. Or maybe you fueled immediately after the tank was filled and the contaminants were stirred up and not yet settled back to the bottom.

Most large chains "guarantee" their fuel, but you will find it nearly impossible to actually get them to stand behind it or any damage it causes. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask about it or their fuel quality. Once in awhile you will get a clerk that says "You are the 10th person who said they had problems. " or something like that. Even if it is a conscientious vendor, they need feedback to know if they might be developing a problem.

I used to fuel at a particular company-mandated fuel stop every night. One very cold winter, my semi began experiencing terrible gelling and line-and-filter-freezing problems that would not go away. My truck needed new filters every day for 3 days straight. Being stranded in the middle of nowhere in subzero weather at night with a truck that didn't run really ticked me off. I collected a sample of that place's fuel in a clean container and gave it to our mechanics. It was found to be horribly contaminated and my problems persisted even several tanks of fuel later from a different source.

They eventually had to drop and drain and clean and dry both my tanks. A couple months later, that truckstop was closing its doors. One of the clerks told me the DNR had determined their tanks were leaking fuel underground and the owner did not want to pay the huge expense for tank replacement. If fuel can get out, water can get in.

BTW: Never rely upon the blending that comes from the seller. They have no control over it. Usually, the transport driver is responsible for blending each load. Some do a better job than others. Maybe the bulk facility was out of an additive. Maybe he forgot or just got in a big hurry. Whatever the case, you can rest assured whatever blending or additives are used will be the bare minimum and inconsistent and the least expensive.

I have always had good results with Penray Winter Power. I have seldom heard anything good about Power Service products, but that's what most truckstops carry (which is why their sales are high; and not because it is everyone's first choice; it is their only choice). There are so many different treatments it would be hard to find any meaningful testing or comparison data, but if anyone has some, I'd sure like to see it.

I question the quality of all modern additives since they, too, must meet EPA regulations. Lubricity has definitely suffered, and I think anti-gelling and water-dispersing has, too.

 

[concrete-steve]

Thanks for the input guys, all very helpful information.



I still haven't dropped the tank yet, just can't seem to get motivated to do this job. I did dose with the diesel 911 and wrote a letter to Shell to see where it goes. We have had upper teens at night and no problem which gives me a false sense that the problem is solved, but I should know better and will ultimately get to removing the tank and cleaning everything out. To be continued... ...