Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Fuel Plates and dyno charts

[guldam]

As I contemplate the Mighty 12v Cummins engine and try to absorb as much information and collective experiences of this community as I can muster, I am left with a number of questions.



The latest question I have is, has anyone done a comprehensive dyno comparison of available Torque/Fuel Plates on an otherwise stock engine? And is there a collection of dyno charts available?



I'm interested in the torque and horsepower curves with rpm values. Peak values are nice, but I think the curves tell you much more about the quality of that power. Where it starts, where it flattens out, and where it cuts off.



And yep, I'm aware that the numbers will be vastly different on a 98 12v manual 49state vs a 97 12v auto California model. Comparing Apples and Apples would be optimal.



Surely someone has been curious and had access to a dyno, and has the charts!



Curiosity didn't kill this cat.



GulDam

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I did about 1000 dyno runs about a decade ago, including tests of TST and custom torque plates. Way too much to get into here. Come to May Madness.

 

[guldam]

You truly are a walking encyclopedia!!!



Ever thought about writing a book on the 12v Dodges?



GulDam

I did about 1000 dyno runs about a decade ago, including tests of TST and custom torque plates. Way too much to get into here. Come to May Madness.

 

[LVJUNIOR]

I would buy that book.

 

[ttbird]

Joe,I also would part with the cash for such great info. Tom

 

[Hammer]

Tom...

How many dyno sheets do you want to look at?.



I have enough here your eyes would get all crossed looking at them all.

 

[pwerwagn]

You truly are a walking encyclopedia!!!



Ever thought about writing a book on the 12v Dodges?



GulDam

Joe is the 12V expert, period. He has taught me soooo much. And I'm sure he has forgot ten times more than he ever taught me.

 

[CBlack]

As I contemplate the Mighty 12v Cummins engine and try to absorb as much information and collective experiences of this community as I can muster, I am left with a number of questions.



The latest question I have is, has anyone done a comprehensive dyno comparison of available Torque/Fuel Plates on an otherwise stock engine? And is there a collection of dyno charts available?



I'm interested in the torque and horsepower curves with rpm values. Peak values are nice, but I think the curves tell you much more about the quality of that power. Where it starts, where it flattens out, and where it cuts off.



And yep, I'm aware that the numbers will be vastly different on a 98 12v manual 49state vs a 97 12v auto California model. Comparing Apples and Apples would be optimal.



Surely someone has been curious and had access to a dyno, and has the charts!



Curiosity didn't kill this cat.



GulDam

I noticed in your sig that you have a #10 plate already.



A TST? How do you like it? Mileage increase?



I've been considering a TST #8 myself which is why I ask.

 

[guldam]

I just installed it last weekend and have only put on a hundred miles. So no fuel mileage feedback yet.



There is decent power, though I'm not pushing it, since my transmission is due for a rebuild. Will report back after I've put some miles on the truck and rebuilt the transmission. I suspect the power differences with new transmission will make me happy. As it is, when in the sweet spot on the freeway, just barely touching the go pedal the truck wants to go.



I can see a 3k spring is really needed here as the power pretty much dies after 2100rpms.





GulDam

I noticed in your sig that you have a #10 plate already.



A TST? How do you like it? Mileage increase?



I've been considering a TST #8 myself which is why I ask.

 

[CBlack]

I just installed it last weekend and have only put on a hundred miles. So no fuel mileage feedback yet.



There is decent power, though I'm not pushing it, since my transmission is due for a rebuild. Will report back after I've put some miles on the truck and rebuilt the transmission. I suspect the power differences with new transmission will make me happy. As it is, when in the sweet spot on the freeway, just barely touching the go pedal the truck wants to go.



I can see a 3k spring is really needed here as the power pretty much dies after 2100rpms.





GulDam

Sounds like a winner.



What made you pick the #10 over the #8?



TST recommends the #8 and Scheid and a few others say the #10.



Then DDP says theirs is the only way to go.



Are you planning on a built transmission or slightly upgraded stock one?

 

[guldam]

I agonized over which plate to buy for weeks. I started out thinking a #6, then a #8 and finally a #10. Some folks were saying the torque curve on the #10 is better for towing. And I fretted about the transmission, and so I went with the #10.



I'm still vacillating on the Transmission. For $3300 I can get a transmission good for maybe 325 hp. For $5500 I can get a transmission good for 600hp.



$3300 is a bunch of money, and $5500 is too rich for my pocket at this point. I'm talking to LeftCoastDiesel about the transmissions. I've yet to read anything negative about these guys. Erik will build whatever I want, but I must admit I'm less than educated on the subject.



In the meantime I'm just going to drive the truck and avoid hauling my boat up the mountains. transmission seems ok if I'm not towing. Will just take it easy and see.



3k spring for sure, though I'm going to have to work up my courage to change that out. My luck I'd drop something into that gaping hole and then I'd tear my hair out...



Gauges on way. (wife is going to kill me when they show up on the stoop. )



GulDam

Sounds like a winner.



What made you pick the #10 over the #8?



TST recommends the #8 and Scheid and a few others say the #10.



Then DDP says theirs is the only way to go.



Are you planning on a built transmission or slightly upgraded stock one?

 

[CBlack]

I agonized over which plate to buy for weeks. I started out thinking a #6, then a #8 and finally a #10. Some folks were saying the torque curve on the #10 is better for towing. And I fretted about the transmission, and so I went with the #10.



I'm still vacillating on the Transmission. For $3300 I can get a transmission good for maybe 325 hp. For $5500 I can get a transmission good for 600hp.



$3300 is a bunch of money, and $5500 is too rich for my pocket at this point. I'm talking to LeftCoastDiesel about the transmissions. I've yet to read anything negative about these guys. Erik will build whatever I want, but I must admit I'm less than educated on the subject.



In the meantime I'm just going to drive the truck and avoid hauling my boat up the mountains. transmission seems ok if I'm not towing. Will just take it easy and see.



3k spring for sure, though I'm going to have to work up my courage to change that out. My luck I'd drop something into that gaping hole and then I'd tear my hair out...



Gauges on way. (wife is going to kill me when they show up on the stoop. )



GulDam

If you were fretting about the transmission, why the #10. From looking at the ratings I thought the #10 would be harder on the transmission than the #8?



Like you, I'd like to see the dyno charts for some of the plates, especially now that you talk about the #10 plate.



Those prices for transmissions aren't that bad from what I've seen.



I'm considering an Allison 1000 swap for mine... that extra gear (or two!) would mighty handy for highway driving.



Glad to see my wife isn't the only one...

 

[guldam]

I was going to wait for any engine mods until the transmission was installed, but there was this itch that needed scratching.



I scratched.



I'm driving the truck all gentle now, and after the 4th of July, I will make an appointment and just close my eyes and order the transmission rebuild.



Going to have to sell my beautiful Aprilia motorcycle to pay for this I think. Sigh.



GulDam

If you were fretting about the transmission, why the #10. From looking at the ratings I thought the #10 would be harder on the transmission than the #8?



Like you, I'd like to see the dyno charts for some of the plates, especially now that you talk about the #10 plate.



Those prices for transmissions aren't that bad from what I've seen.



I'm considering an Allison 1000 swap for mine... that extra gear (or two!) would mighty handy for highway driving.



Glad to see my wife isn't the only one...

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I designed the #10 for the 215 HP pump. It won't be optimal for the 180 HP pump. It will work, and give good torque, but higher rpm HP will be down compared to the correct plates (#8, 6, 5 TST).

 

[guldam]

!!!



Well, Shucks, this is why you need to write the book!!!!



Can you talk about the differences between the three torque plates you mention? #8, #6, #5 in terms of HP/Torque curves, smoke, fuel mileage, best for towing etc?



GulDam

I designed the #10 for the 215 HP pump. It won't be optimal for the 180 HP pump. It will work, and give good torque, but higher rpm HP will be down compared to the correct plates (#8, 6, 5 TST).

 

[CBlack]

!!!



Well, Shucks, this is why you need to write the book!!!!



Can you talk about the differences between the three torque plates you mention? #8, #6, #5 in terms of HP/Torque curves, smoke, fuel mileage, best for towing etc?



GulDam

To add to this...



Timing with said fuel plates?

 

[GAmes]

3k spring for sure, though I'm going to have to work up my courage to change that out. My luck I'd drop something into that gaping hole and then I'd tear my hair out...

I took the fender liner off and went in from the side.

 

[BHaden]

I'm new to the 12 valve world (previously had an 06 Mega Cab). I've been spending a lot of time and money fixing and cleaning stuff. While I had the pump out for oil leak repairs on the engine I poked around and found a plate with a BIG number "10" stamped in it. No indication of who made it. Are they all TSTs? I've seen an occasional comment that makes me think other companies have their own plates and wonder how the plate numbers relate (assuming I'm right about other makes of plate). The truck runs great. HUGE midrange torque, spools pretty quick, moderate smoke if I push it at low rpm, and gets

18-ish mpg on the highway at 70+mph. Is there a visual way to tell if the pump has any other "hot rod" parts, like a spring kit. I have no idea what stock and modified stuff looks like. I concur on the book... . Or at least find a way to publish the dyno sheets broken down into chapters that have one theme, like "plate 'X' with turbo 'Y' and large exhaust". All the sheets would be overkill, but maybe 10-20% of them in a 3-hole binder.

Keep it simple.

 

[pwerwagn]

If it is 1 piece (no rivets) and has a big 10 in it, its more than likely TST.

 

[Breed]

I used a number #8 in my 98 12v Q-cab, but the automatic transmission started slipping in high gear, so I removed it and went back to stock, when I rebuild the transmission I will have it beefed up and I plan to go back to the #8 torque plate from TST.