Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Fuel pressure starting

[IdahoJim]

That's great Papa. Katoom...so where does the excess fuel exit the injector?
Jim

 

[phantomusa]

Sorry bout that katoom sometimes spell checker doesn't like what I type and changes it....bad checker....bad checker there its been spanked
Pappy

 

[NIsaacs]

Here's my update I just when out and started my truck turned key on bumped the starter got pressure and started first try...problem fixed
Pappy

Good job! I sure would like to know how that worked, I can't explain that at all.

Nick

 

[NIsaacs]

That's great Papa. Katoom...so where does the excess fuel exit the injector?
Jim

This picture might help. I would guess the small hole above the connector tube opening?

Nick

 

[phantomusa]

Nick I really don't know all I can say it in my years as a diesel mechanic if all lines have fuel it's OK if a line doesn't change it out and try it again now everything works
And with my old eyes I can't see defects in lines so the 24.95 cost of a new line was worth it
(Magic)
Pappy

 

[KATOOM]

This picture might help. I would guess the small hole above the connector tube opening?

View attachment 97785

Nick

Thats correct.

 

[IdahoJim]

Many thanks guys. The pic was a big help, Nick. I'm still fighting the issue on my truck. Going to pull off the flatbed this weekend, so I can get to the tank module. I've done about everything else, short of
pulling the high pressure lines, and rechecking the connector tubes. Now I'm wondering if I have an issue with the fuel pump pulling air into the system. I'm going to check the canister lines for breaks, or
obstructions. And also the quick-connect fittings. I tried leaving the cap off the tank, to see if I had a venting issue, but nothing changed. Will report back.
Jim

 

[DavidC]

Finally solved my cold start issue. Found out it was the stock lift pump with a intermittent electrical problem. I thought maybe it was the pigtail harness and replaced. When I would first start it would run for a second until out of fuel, pressure gauge at 0 and no pump running. If I unplugged the harness at the pump and plug back in all would be well until the next morning hence the pigtail change. Finally put one of my old pumps back on and was welcomed to a instant start this morning. So something in the pump electrical has a intermittent open, this is really the first lift pump I ever had problems with in the life of the truck. Kind of releived as I was thinking I had a ruptured diaphram in the VP.

Dave

 

[IdahoJim]

Glad to hear you got yours fixed, Dave. My lift pump works fine. I pulled the bed off today, and pulled the fuel canister. The rollover vent was plugged, but I don't think that was my problem. The filler cap also
acts as a vent, though mine doesn't vent very easily. So, maybe that's the problem. Once I get it back together, I'll find out...LOL.
Jim

 

[KATOOM]

Kind of releived as I was thinking I had a ruptured diaphram in the VP.

Dave

Be assured that the diaphragm doesnt rupture, tear, or anything of the sort. Thats an internet urban legend which never seems to go away even though its been visually proven.

 

[DavidC]

Be assured that the diaphragm doesnt rupture, tear, or anything of the sort. Thats an internet urban legend which never seems to go away even though its been visually proven.

This could be a lengthy uh oh from Blue Chip then

[h=2]HARD START COLD, LONG CRANK TIMES, AND INSTANTLY RUNS SMOOTHLY[/h] This is typically due to a cracked or broken diaphragm inside the Injection Pump. To test for this try disconnecting the electrical power from the Lift Pump BEFORE turning the key on, and see if it starts better. This happens because the electric lift pump pushes air which is always in the fuel chamber inside the VP44 pump, through the crack or break in the diaphragm, into the mechanical high pressure pump and it becomes air-bound until it rotates enough times to bleed out the air. If it starts better without an electric Lift Pump, it is because the electric Lift Pump hasn’t forced air into the mechanical high pressure pump through the crack or break in the diaphragm, which is what separates the fuel chamber from the high pressure pump. This failure requires a VP44 replacement to fix the problem.

It took me several days to figure out as it was very intermittent and always with a cold engine in the morning. After it started it worked all day. Somewhere from the pins on the pump to the armature there is a loose connection, glad I did not throw a $ 2k pump at it.

Dave

 

[KATOOM]

Well there's some history behind this.....

Chip from Bluechipdiesel retired some years ago. Doug now runs the show there but I understand that all their diagnostic info on the website is from collected info way back when, and actually should be updated as there's been a few things that have been found to be different than thought over the years. Understand that Bluechipdiesel is NOT a remanufacturer either but rather gets their VP's from vendor sources who work closely with Bluechipdiesel to put together what they want. The Bosch 815 test bench is extremely expensive (hundreds of thousands) and is required when properly rebuilding these injection pumps, so only a small handful of places across the states actually has one.

That said, the reason for the hard start which was thought to be from a diaphragm issue would be impossible because the diaphragm is thick plastic. Well actually the reman versions which have been around for the past decade or so are not only thick plastic but they're covered in metal as well. Whats really happening is if the fuel pump pressure is too high during engine cranking this causes the plungers to press against the timing ring which then prevents the timing solenoid from moving the ring to max timing for starting. The solenoid is then hydro-locked until the initial fuel pressure pressure bleeds off enough until the solenoid can move the timing ring. This is also more a problem when the VP is hot too which is why unplugging the fuel pump "test" isnt for a cold engine.

And to add merit to what I just told you.....Chip himself told me this about 7 years ago during about an hour long phone conversation back when he was still with Bluechipdiesel.

 

[DavidC]

Katoom:
Still learning every Day.
Thanks for the VP lesson

Dave

 

[phantomusa]

Dave have you tried a clear tube to look for air in system
Here's one I built

They can be made outta a small engine filter too just remove the filter

Pappy

 

[KATOOM]

phantomusa, I'm intrigued. Where and how did you make this? How does it seal and not leak around the glass?

 

[DavidC]

Pappy:
No, have not done that. I believe I have one of those glass filters in my tool box left over from projects thru the years.
Thanks for the tip.

Dave

 

[DavidC]

Katoom:
How long have you been running the Raptor ?. I have one brand new in the box but have not installed it yet.

Dave

 

[KATOOM]

I cant remember exactly but I think since back in '09.

 

[phantomusa]

phantomusa, I'm intrigued. Where and how did you make this? How does it seal and not leak around the glass?

Katoom sealing is easy just a rubber seal since the pressure isn't really very high
I've had mine for 30 plus years used it alot in older days working on 18 wheelers and sight glasses are used alot in marine motors
Pappy

 

[DavidC]

I cant remember exactly but I think since back in '09.

Good to know it is holding up well

Dave