Fuel prices and how to help.

[JesseJ]

I still believe that getting rid of the worthless politicians who won't let us drill anywhere will help. We need to get some people in office who are willing to take a stand on that. We also need people in office who are willing to take on the EPA as well. The restrictions are getting ridiculous. When the air coming out of the tailpipes of our new diesels are cleaner than what went in to the engine in larger cities, something tells me they went a little too far. I would love for someone at the EPA to explain to me how in the world you get cleaner air when you're using more fuel to go the same distance. I don't buy the old line about "well you have more horsepower now too so that's where that extra fuel is going. " Garbage! I have charter buses that dropped 1mpg meeting the Oct. '04 EPA emissions. I have 30 of them that now average 5. 5 mpg instead of 6. 5 mpg. Same bus, same motor(60 Series Detroit), only thing different is the emissions garbage added on to it. They average 40k miles a year. Those 30 buses are using 33567 gallons more fuel to go the same distance, and there are thousands of these engines on the road! They say diesel consumption has risen quite a bit in the last few years. Garbage! The only reason we're using more diesel is because our new clean motors are not as fuel efficient! And it's gotten even worse with the new ULSD diesel fuel! I understand there is a fine line between cleaner air and fuel efficiency but all the environmentalist nut jobs have brain washed our politicians and government into thinking that our air must be as clean and white as the wind driven snow and who cares about fuel efficiency going down the toilet! We've already come a long ways in the last 20 years. Semis used to roll coal all day long going down the road, they don't anymore! When is enough enough?

 

[JDiepstra]

I still believe that getting rid of the worthless politicians who won't let us drill anywhere will help. We need to get some people in office who are willing to take a stand on that. We also need people in office who are willing to take on the EPA as well. The restrictions are getting ridiculous. When the air coming out of the tailpipes of our new diesels are cleaner than what went in to the engine in larger cities, something tells me they went a little too far. I would love for someone at the EPA to explain to me how in the world you get cleaner air when you're using more fuel to go the same distance. I don't buy the old line about "well you have more horsepower now too so that's where that extra fuel is going. " Garbage! I have charter buses that dropped 1mpg meeting the Oct. '04 EPA emissions. I have 30 of them that now average 5. 5 mpg instead of 6. 5 mpg. Same bus, same motor(60 Series Detroit), only thing different is the emissions garbage added on to it. They average 40k miles a year. Those 30 buses are using 33567 gallons more fuel to go the same distance, and there are thousands of these engines on the road! They say diesel consumption has risen quite a bit in the last few years. Garbage! The only reason we're using more diesel is because our new clean motors are not as fuel efficient! And it's gotten even worse with the new ULSD diesel fuel! I understand there is a fine line between cleaner air and fuel efficiency but all the environmentalist nut jobs have brain washed our politicians and government into thinking that our air must be as clean and white as the wind driven snow and who cares about fuel efficiency going down the toilet! We've already come a long ways in the last 20 years. Semis used to roll coal all day long going down the road, they don't anymore! When is enough enough?

Enough MAY be enough when you have no more to give. "THEY" will take and take till you have no more, and then once you give up, "THEY" will give you charity. Don't give up.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

A suppose that I have a very myopic view of all of this. Here are my assumptions:





Whoever it taking my money will continue to do do.



They most likely will want even more of it.



I have no leverage to do anything about it.



The election will not help. Just different people getting my money.



My only intereest in the price if Diesel in Mexico is that it is way less than it is here, which proves that I am being ripped off.





My summary:



I want to determine whatever is the best way to stretch what money I have and still get where Ineed to go.





I am sorry if this is sour and cranky. It is pointed at no one here, just frustration speaking. After all, we are all driving the same diesel trucks. There is a TMTT post detailing all of the various places diesel affects our economy it is very eye opening. I am fearful of the outcome.

JEEZE, Andy - common sense in SPADES!



Little use in pointing out who the crooks REALLY are, they will still continue robbing us - or be replaced with BIGGER crooks - and that goes for both government AND private sector!



The sad fact is, about all an individual can do, is cover themselves and those close to them as best they can, and try to stay above the water line!



And THAT is truly SAD!

 

[ACoyle]

We are getting close to the political forum here, but, in my own opinion, it will not help. Legislators are elected by voters who largely do not vote. They are influenced by lobbyists who get and spend a lot of money from special interests. This is the only part of our system that is apolitical. Unless you, me and everyone else is willing to vote in all people who are not in office, thereby removing all people in office, there is no hope.



Barometer - How many oif the last five election years (including local ones) has anyone voted?



Yes the new diesels , except the modified ones, are cleaner. Does that help? I think not, the only thing that will help is lower diesel prices and / or more mileage. I am in favor of clean, don't get me wrong. Must the price for clean come out of my pocket, along with the vig for the oil companies?



In case the term vig is not familiar. define:Vig - Google Search

 

[ACoyle]

More rant - In regard to the people in office. Here are some prices from 1955 Prices - What Things Cost - 1955 I notice gasoline is $. 23. We've had about every party and persuasion of politition since then, it does not seem to have helped.



As far as I know - the EPA is a branch of the gouvernment. I still believe the only thing that can help is voters voting and holding those in office accountable without regard for party or which way they lean.



Sorry for the rant - It's ainin all day and I gotta buy diesel tonight.

See - I smiled.



Wow! I feel some better. Let's 35 gal of Diesel @ $4. 20 - That headache si comming back.

 

[ACoyle]

It seems like the berater car wins!



Here are some figures:



I used a number of 10,000 miles for my figures.



If the stock truck gets 16 MPG and diesel is $4. 19 Fuel will be $2,618. 75



If you buy a gear vendors and increase 4 MPG fuel will be $2,096. 00 assuming the price stays the same. You will save $523. 75.



If you buy a beater and it can get 25 MPG and you use $3. 25 for gasoline, fuel will cost $1,300. 00. Over the same 10K, you will save $1,316. 75.



The savings with the GV is $. 06 per mile, the savings with the beater is $. 13 per mile.



If you pay $3,000. 00 for the beater the break even is 22,749 miles or about 2 years at the national average of 15K per year.



If you pay $4,000. 00 for the GV the break even point is 76,372 miles. That's a long time.



I excluded maintenance, because, it would only benefit the beater, less oil cheaper filters, tires, etc.



I did not consider insurance, the beater would not need colission, advantage beater.



Bummer numbers, since I really love to drive my Dodge.

Any ideas on what I might have missed?

 

[BHaden]

It seems like the berater car wins!



Here are some figures:



I used a number of 10,000 miles for my figures.



If the stock truck gets 16 MPG and diesel is $4. 19 Fuel will be $2,618. 75



If you buy a gear vendors and increase 4 MPG fuel will be $2,096. 00 assuming the price stays the same. You will save $523. 75.



If you buy a beater and it can get 25 MPG and you use $3. 25 for gasoline, fuel will cost $1,300. 00. Over the same 10K, you will save $1,316. 75.



The savings with the GV is $. 06 per mile, the savings with the beater is $. 13 per mile.



If you pay $3,000. 00 for the beater the break even is 22,749 miles or about 2 years at the national average of 15K per year.



If you pay $4,000. 00 for the GV the break even point is 76,372 miles. That's a long time.



I excluded maintenance, because, it would only benefit the beater, less oil cheaper filters, tires, etc.



I did not consider insurance, the beater would not need colission, advantage beater.



Bummer numbers, since I really love to drive my Dodge.

Any ideas on what I might have missed?

I think you covered it pretty well. You did the same calcs that I did when I bought my "beater". Except it really isn't a beater, it's a really nice car. I topped it off this morning and it came out at 27. 5 mpg (at $3. 93 for 87 octane; diesel at the same station was $4. 49). That is the one thing not actually mentioned in your figuring; don't get a real beater that needs a bunch of things fixed. Look for a good deal on a low mileage car with a known history if possible. I paid $3000 (98 Mustang 3. 8 5 speed). The only money I've spent is for new plugs and wires and a cheap $95 stereo/CD player. The tires look to have at least 20k left. I drive it 2000+ miles a month. Even with insurance and license fees averaging about $50/mo I'm saving around $200/mo and I'm not wearing out my truck or my wifes 05 Liberty. The Mustang will be break-even in less than 2 years. When the tires wear out I can get a nice set for about $300 from Tire rack and friend has a race tire mounting business and will mount and balance for $60. This vs. the $1200 I just spent on (6) Pirellis for the truck. And, the Mustang is actually fun to drive. Now if I could find a proper diesel to swap into it.....

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I still believe the only thing that can help is voters voting and holding those in office accountable without regard for party or which way they lean.

UMMMmmmmm - Andy, using THIS upcoming election as a typical example, WHO do we vote for to get the country and economy back on track, based upon track record, and clearly stated goals and platform?



AND, if they fail. exactly HOW do we "hold them accountable"?, any more successfully than past ones, or the ones currently in office?



Come up with a WORKABLE reply to that, and win the Nobel prize... :-laf:-laf

 

[JesseJ]

It's quite simple, if they don't do as you would like them to then you vote the bums out after one term.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It's quite simple, if they don't do as you would like them to then you vote the bums out after one term.

YUP - and then get EXACTLY the same sort of "bum" the NEXT time - seems we voters never learn that, essentially ALL politicians are the SAME, just different wrappers - vote THIS bunch out, and get another bunch JUST LIKE THEM as "replacements"...



Republican, Democrat, Independent - makes NO difference - different day - same crapola!

 

[ACoyle]

Gary, I would not go into the business of recommending anyone. What I advocate is the proverbial shot across the bow.



Historically, a small percentage of the people even vote. This gives rise to the politicians feeling that the people do not care and they are at liberty to do as they please. If a large percentage of people voted, that would serve notice that we the people are interested / upset / something. Phase 2, the folks that are in office are not working, at least for us, they need to be replaced, all of them, without regard to party. If every politicain in office was voted out, we would have their attention. It is like any form of animal training, first, you need to get their attention. Our system of politics is basically deviicive. By being loyal to a party we are divided. By being loyal to ourselves, we are more powerful.



I am convinced that a large turnout and all different politicians would start the process. Why is a 90 some odd year old man still in the chair of a powerful committie? After the same result in the election after that, we should be going someplace.

 

[ACoyle]

Bhaden - If you meand fuel price, I used $4. 18 for Diesel and $3. 25 for gasoline, it is in there. If you mean octane, I do not understand it's significance.



AC

 

[Coalsmoke]

AC, I guess in your parts insurance is not necessary, but here you need some basic coverages, about $800 per year minimum, I would have thought other places would be similar in this minimum coverage and registration fees.

Next point, good idea, bought a beater, and I think it can work, but at what point do you pull the plug on it? When your 3-5,000 investment needs a $2000 transmission? Is it worth it to fix it for the $2K or lose your $3,000 "beater" investment. Losing the investment would pretty much take care of a couple of years worth of fuel differential costs by your payments.

I'm not trying to get anyone riled up, it has just been my experience that sometimes cheap doesn't = better. I think the "beater" that is not really a beater like the route BHaden went to might be a better long term solution, but, then it changes the game as the $7-10K car is no longer a disposable item.

I'm not saying that the Gear Vendors is any better of an option, in fact I'm not a fan of their setup per se.

 

[JesseJ]

I've never been a fan of term limits, as I believe that voters could term limit someone out of office with their vote. But that is the problem, even in a presidential election where you usually get the highest turnout of voters, only 40% of REGISTERED voters even come to vote. What about all the people that aren't even registered? We either get more people to turn out to vote as you say, or we enact term limits. I would be scared to know how many votes are changed, how many back room deals are done, how many people scratch each others back, all in the name of getting re-elected the next cycle. I think a lot of that GARBAGE would be eliminated if term limits were used. Then they could actually focus on why they're there in the first place, NOT WHATS GOING TO KEEP THEM THERE!!#@$%!

 

[DerekW]

In looking at fuel prices of diesel, I have been doing some thinking.



Option one - Buy a beater car.

I can get a high mileage car for local running around. Most likely about $2,000. 00. After that comes insurance, maintenance, parking and etc. Of course there is the save $. 90 a gallon. Do I really want to do this?



If I figure that I love my Dodge and am happiest seated in the cab, I thought of:



Option 2



Purchase a gear vendors overdrive for the truck.



Does anyone have one?

Has anyone any constructive information?

Anyone heard anything bad?



It seems to me that the amount of money spent at the end would be similar. Since the truck will be paid off in 2 years, after that point diesel, even expensive diesel, will be loss costly, it yoyu get my drift.



I welcome any and all opinions.





Anyway, the math looks interesting.



400 miles at 17 MPG, with Diesel at $4. 19 costs $98. 59

400 Mises at 20. 4 MPG with diesel costing $4. 19 costs $82. 16

Savings would be about $16. 43 per fillup. They claim a 20% increase in milage, however, some have seen more.

option X: my gf and her family have been considering:

move to south carolina where the diesel is only 3. 97 a gallon. sales tax 5%. cigarettes (her parents together 5 packs a day), laws are more in our favor has got us considering moving to SC from MD. highest price in town on diesel is 4. 50 right now. so overall cost of living in SC is cheaper.



Option X2: propane injection from superchips. 800 for injection kit, prices vary from 400 to 950 for DOT of the same size. the same tank ATS sells I have seen new for $400 with out ATS's steep markup

 

[DerekW]

AC, I guess in your parts insurance is not necessary, but here you need some basic coverages, about $800 per year minimum, I would have thought other places would be similar in this minimum coverage and registration fees.



Next point, good idea, bought a beater, and I think it can work, but at what point do you pull the plug on it? When your 3-5,000 investment needs a $2000 transmission? Is it worth it to fix it for the $2K or lose your $3,000 "beater" investment. Losing the investment would pretty much take care of a couple of years worth of fuel differential costs by your payments.



I'm not trying to get anyone riled up, it has just been my experience that sometimes cheap doesn't = better. I think the "beater" that is not really a beater like the route BHaden went to might be a better long term solution, but, then it changes the game as the $7-10K car is no longer a disposable item.



I'm not saying that the Gear Vendors is any better of an option, in fact I'm not a fan of their setup per se.

my buddy in NC has got a chevy car that i borrowed one night. i drove it 60 miles home and thought the fuel guage was broke cuz the car had a carb and was real old and i assumed old cars get poor fuel economy. well the dern gauge was working and that 80s car got better mpg than my 1999 5. 9 durango on the same route. the only thing wrong with the car is you had to put it in nuetral when not in the skinny or else she'll shake. I accidently bumped her too far into reverse and thought i killed it. nope tough little car wit great fuel mileage. but he rathered drive his ranger on 44inch sts's everyday. with that said you can find a beater with good mpg. but my luck with buying beaters has always been around 5 mpg.

 

[ACoyle]

Coalsmoke - I did consider insurance. I did not put numbers in, because all I would need is liability and not comprehensive, if I bought it outright. My thinking is that would favor the beater.



When to pull the plug is really the big trick. I would prolly go for junk yard parts iinstead of rebuilding anything. I woulden't take the car out of town or on long trips.



I could move anywhere south of Virginia and love it, I don't see it as an economy move though. THe Northeast is expensive, but I have a home and work here. Now, Victoria BC, that might be worth the stretch.



AC

 

[Coalsmoke]

Victoria BC is nice, one issue in this whole section of BC is that cheap overseas parts or junkyard parts go for 80% of new stock, and insurance isn't cheap, so for me I have decided to just relax, take my time and drive the truck instead of running 2 vehicles, although I did consider the 30mpg car idea at one point. If I have to work a little more for fuel then so be it. That said, I will have a bio-diesel setup in the works once I've relocated in another little while.

 

[Matt400]

Just saw this one:

Superchips / Mileage XS for 2003-2007 Dodge RAM Diesel - Mileage XS for 2003-2007 Dodge RAM Diesel / www.superchips.com



Dunno if its any good or not.