Fuel Prices got you down?

[JesseJ]

Not quite, I would be one of those people who still believes America is a great country, and I live in the midwest.

Seriously though, I'm not going to lie and say everything is fine and dandy here, but I sure wouldn't want to live anywhere else! I guess for me (again, just my opinion) it's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, and often enough, eventually it becomes the truth. I don't want to go down that road because I don't want this country to go that direction. My only advice would be this: If you believe there are genuine problems with this country, then do something about it! Vote out the bums in congress if they don't represent you well, call them, write to them, etc. Get petitions signed to change laws you don't agree with in your area. I know some will say that's pointless but what else are you going to do? If our system of government is completely broken as some would say, then do something about it! Don't just complain about how bad it is, take action.

 

[DCreed]

You do NOT have to be a commie-pinko-liberal to see that capitalism, a wonderful concept to be sure, can be so perverted as to work against the good of the country in general. I do not ascribe to income redistribution and all of the socialistic garbage being trotted out by some demagogues. That is not what I am about. We can agree to disagree, but please, please, refrain from the disappointed, unsuccessful, socialistic insinuations when you quote my posts.

... you just have to have your eyes OPEN!:-laf

Not quite, I would be one of those people who still believes America is a great country, and I live in the midwest.

Seriously though, I'm not going to lie and say everything is fine and dandy here, but I sure wouldn't want to live anywhere else! I guess for me (again, just my opinion) it's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, and often enough, eventually it becomes the truth. I don't want to go down that road because I don't want this country to go that direction. My only advice would be this: If you believe there are genuine problems with this country, then do something about it! Vote out the bums in congress if they don't represent you well, call them, write to them, etc. Get petitions signed to change laws you don't agree with in your area. I know some will say that's pointless but what else are you going to do? If our system of government is completely broken as some would say, then do something about it! Don't just complain about how bad it is, take action.

Very true. The founding fathers would agree IMHO.

 

[HBarlow]

As for those good hearted bankers. Who paid for the savings and loan collapse, when they tried to run a gambit in the 80's? Who is going to pay for the current bunch of scammers who were in a misguided paper trading gambit? You and I Harvey, that's who. .

TFucili:



It is true that a few dishonest individuals, with the help of lots of dishonest congressmen and senators, looted their savings and loan banks and we, the taxpayers were unwillingly forced to bail them out but what do you propose as a solution when you criticise bankers? Many of them went to jail as a result. Do you propose that government perform their function or regulate them more? There are at least as many dishonest people in government as in banking and business.



The cause of the "current bunch of scammers" as you described them is at least as much the fault of government which demands that lending standards be relaxed or removed when certain minority members of our population wish to have loans and the reckless, and irresponsible fellow Americans who have purchased homes they cannot afford and endlessly refinanced and refinanced their home again, each time rolling personal debt into their mortgages and/or taking out equity to spend and spend. It is easy to blame the problem on banks and bankers but what they are guilty of is relaxing lending standards. The people who are unable to pay as agreed and are defaulting are certainly as guilty, moreso in my opinion.



I'm surprised by your attitude. You apparently have a verynegative opinion of capitalism and our businesses for someone who is in business for himself.

 

[HBarlow]

After SEVERAL cheap shots and poop shoveling the B. S. ship "SS BARLOW" still sails on here in a fog of ignorance.



Sorry Gary, you forgot "left wing liberal socialists" . :-laf



Please come up with some new material Harvey!:-laf We already know all the gung-ho Pro-American propaganda you seem to need to spew at every opportunity. This international problem is not bi-partisan.

DCreed,



Would you read back over the garbage you posted above and point out anything it contains that even pretends to be an intelligent discussion of the issues?



You're damned right I continue to spew pro-American opinions and support. I am a very proud American who served his country for close to 30 years, has visited many other countries around the globe and can compare, and has enjoyed reasonable success and reward in this great nation and feel no compulsion to criticise it or blame others for my disappointments.

 

[HBarlow]

Gary,



You are so deeply invested in class envy and resentment of everyone who is more successful than yourself you cannot see daylight or all the happy successful people around you.



If you are, in fact, so successful why do you continually complain about and criticise those who are? If you are so concerned about your fellow man, don't act like a lib and demand that government take from the successful producers and transfer wealth to the non-producers, step up and reach in your own pocket and be generous.

 

[TFucili]

TFucili:

It is true that a few dishonest individuals, with the help of lots of dishonest congressmen and senators, looted their savings and loan banks and we, the taxpayers were unwillingly forced to bail them out but what do you propose as a solution when you criticise bankers? Many of them went to jail as a result. Do you propose that government perform their function or regulate them more? There are at least as many dishonest people in government as in banking and business.

The cause of the "current bunch of scammers" as you described them is at least as much the fault of government which demands that lending standards be relaxed or removed when certain minority members of our population wish to have loans and the reckless, and irresponsible fellow Americans who have purchased homes they cannot afford and endlessly refinanced and refinanced their home again, each time rolling personal debt into their mortgages and/or taking out equity to spend and spend. It is easy to blame the problem on banks and bankers but what they are guilty of is relaxing lending standards. The people who are unable to pay as agreed and are defaulting are certainly as guilty, moreso in my opinion.

I'm surprised by your attitude. You apparently have a verynegative opinion of capitalism and our businesses for someone who is in business for himself.

Again, Harvey, I believe in capitalism. I don't have a negative opinion of it, but I do have a negative opinion of how it is being abused. You feel there are but a scant few bad apples, but I think it has become more systematic. I TOTALLY agree that the government is complicit in this. Though I live in AZ, I grew up in NJ, a state so totally corrupt, and out of control that the burden upon honest citizens grew to the point of the absurd. I was not about to raise my son in that cesspool. After many years in business, and working my azz off, I fear that if the ship is not righted, my son, who is almost 10, will have less opportunity than me, and my father before me.

 

[GHarman]

Fuel Prices vs Price of oil

I did a little crude math today. The formula is simple! ~$138. 00/ barrel (40 gallons) of oil. That equates to $3. 45/gallon of oil. "Big Oil", Taxes, Speculators, Cracker/refiner, transportation, Retail make up the rest of the cost of fuel. I'm sure that the breakdown can be calculated exactly. Who is it that gets the $138. 00? How many middlemen between the actual cost of production and the final cost to the refinery? It only costs about $5. 00/barrel to get it out of the ground according to a post I found here recently. GregH

 

[HBarlow]

Again, Harvey, I believe in capitalism. I don't have a negative opinion of it, but I do have a negative opinion of how it is being abused. You feel there are but a scant few bad apples, but I think it has become more systematic. I TOTALLY agree that the government is complicit in this. Though I live in AZ, I grew up in NJ, as state so totally corrupt, and out of control that the burden upon honest citizens grew to the point of the absurd. I was not about to raise my son in that cesspool. After many years in business, and working my azz off, I fear that if the ship is not righted, my son, who is almost 10, will have less opportunity than me, and my father before me.

Don't be depressed about our future. Our economy is cyclical and not at its peak right now. There are currently two issues which have slowed our economy. One is the lending/borrowing problem which has resulted in hundreds, perhaps thousands of foreclosed or vacant homes, slowed home building, and tightened credit. Tightened credit it largely a good thing. Lending standards were far too lax and people who shouldn't have been allowed to borrow did. I think you see American business as the primary cause, I see reckless overspending by consumers as the primary cause. In 1995 I was a financial counselor for people with major personal debt. I was stunned by the debt load my clients were carrying. The personal debt/credit situation is far worse now than it was then. That is caused by individuals, not business.



The other significant factor in our slowed economy is the price of gasoline and diesel fuel. I see the problem as worldwide demand caused by growing industrialization in formerly third world economies driving up the price of crude. You may see the cause as American oil companies overcharging for gas and diesel.



I have tried to the best of my admittedly limited ability to explain why supply and demand have created the motor fuels prices we struggle with and some refuse to see or accept it. I wish I could convince more Americans... ... business is good, government is bad.



I have an old Navy friend who lives in Wickenburg. I have visited there a couple of times over the years since he moved there. He is a little nuts so I won't suggest you meet him.

 

[TFucili]

He is a little nuts so I won't suggest you meet him.

Heck, if he's nuts, there's a good chance I already know him:-laf