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Fuel Pump Adjustments

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Hey guys:



I was wondering what all could be done to get more power on first generations only from adjustments. Things like power screw, which I know what that does. But how do you do things like diaphram adjustments, timing, star wheel, and others? I see you guys talking about them but don't know how to do them or what they will do.



Thanks for the input.



John
 
John,

I have/had all of the same questions rumble through my head, you need to go see Dave Fritz's page under the link for member's homepage listing.



Very detailed!



Russell
 
R.E. Miller

what a find on the advice you gave J DeMaio to look at Dodgeram.org. Any more sites like that you know about. Thanks
 
Seeing as how I used to work on these things... My view of just twisting and turning is very dim...



I will say this: When you turn up the main fuel screw, all the other fuel levels tend to rise.



If the pump is adjusted properly to begin with... changing injectors is ALL you need to make it very responsive. And by keeping your diaphragm right where it is, as well as the spring tension, you prevent a lot of smoke without seriously impacting your overall responsiveness.



By dramatically altering the settings, you put in a lot of fuel without air to burn it. You create very high heat transients, where you have lots of fuel with little boost, meaning you shock your engine heatwise. The 'instant on' power can create quite a shock load for your drivetrain, as well.



Now, I realize that these are rather small issues in the overall scheme of life, but there's no real reason (except perhaps competition) why you need instant full power, or should pour in a lot of fuel you can't fully burn. Smoke is not a good thing, and the soot in your engine is not, either. It dirties your oil just a little faster, it clogs your exhaust...



If you owned a gas engined car, you'd never dream of driving it around belching black smoke and missing from unburned fuel... So why is it good when you have a diesel?
 
Power Wagon

Because I am in the learning and planing stage, of my 1990 1st Gen. Project. All I know for sure is that I want to upgrade Air delivery, add an intercooler, upgraded turbo and exhaust, also a cross flow radiator.

After these are in place match the pump and injectors to give me as much as I can, and still have a civil dependable everyday driver.

But this is where opinions seem to vary, I have heard “ turn up the pump early injectors flow well” and “injectors alone will give you what you want” , “matched pump and injectors”,”Keep an eye on the EGT and you will be ok” As much fun as the BOMBED full bore approach sounds it probably isn’t practical for my intended use. Especially if emissions tests requirements in COLORADO move up to my semi-rural area i live in, as I am sure they will in time.

So efficiency if what I NEED…. . What you are saying, sounds like the type of approach I should concentrate on.

My stock 90 mdl runs good now with little smoke. It does tend to run on the hot side in the summer when loaded.

I take it that, it is your view that leaving the pump alone, and upgrading the injectors will give me what I want, with the air delivery, turbo and exhaust mods. Or - with all of the above done, is there room for a little professional tweeking with the right choice in injectors and still maintain my goal.

Thanks
 
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Jjohn,



I am wanting to make my truck as efficient as possible, but with power to pull a house. I don't intend to touch the pump with the exception of the smoke screw. I am going to install a 16 cm housing this winter and hope to also retime it to 1. 40 mm. I also want to install a set of Lucas injectors, a Banks intercooler, and a Twin Ram intake(if it will fit). However, I can't do much of this until I get out of grad school. I am also hopingot change my truck over to a dually. By the way, you have a very nice looking rig.



Jeremy
 
FYI, and a question too.

First off, I read over Dave Fritz's site throughly a couple of times, and then decided a plan of attack after my Dad said his truck was still a turd :p Secondly, smoke is cool in tractor pulls or if you're making goobs of horsepower, but I am not doing either, and I am with Power Wagon on that issue; less smoke and more power is obtainable. Third, look at my sig for Dad's specs, not much I know. Finally, I turned the full power screw on the side nearest the block 1/2 a turn CW until it hit the collar just to see what would happen. Then I turned the smoke screw 1/2 a turn CW. Small changes are safe in my mind. The truck went from 10lbs of boost to 16+lbs of boost, and very little if any change in smoke :D :cool: I must say that I am impressed even with the small tweak power is real nice and smoke won't concern local fire departments :rolleyes:



Question: Power Wagon



I understand what you are saying up above, and wondered the same thing, "Un-burnt diesel is just smoke, so tuning to minimum smoke and max power would just seem to be a matter of time, tools and tinkering... . right :confused: " Anyway, do you think that running a turbo like the PDR HX-35 or modifying the compressor housing on our H-1's would allow us to make the power with out all the smoke? Or, are our heads just a major limiting factor towards the increased heat of more boost, fuel and power? Thank you for being on the TDR, I saw your post about leaving, and it just won't be the same... . Thank You! ;)
 
Okay guys:



Here's the deal. I have a 2 nd generation buddy who wants to trade me a 12 cm housing for the 21 cm housing. What all is necessary to put it on? Where do you hook up the wastegate line? Is it absolutely necessary to cut up teh exhaust?



For fuel; I'm thinking of turning up the power screw/advancing the timing to about 1. 4 mm. If I made too much smoke could I just loosen the smoke screw:confused: What's better, working on the pump or buying a set of injectors. I see that www.smokindiesel.com has a set of industrial injectors for our truck. Might have to check those out.



What would this power do to my driveline?



Thanks



John
 
Everytime I open my mouth and post on this topic, I end up in trouble... Because it is complex and not everything applies to everyone.



Caveat one: In a <b> properly working </b> pump, there is little need to adjust anything relating to the diaphragm, including the no-air setting, the spring tension, OR the rate (turning the diaphragm). If you want more power, turning up the fuel a little, or changing injectors makes those settings high enough to be very responsive - and pretty much negates any need to fiddle with them to obtain full power and a 12 or 14 exhaust housing makes boost quickly enough to make the engine very responsive.



The problem here, is that a lot of shops AND the factory AND Cummins ReCon often set these at the bottom of, or below the specifications. I don't know why. But doing so often results in "low power" complaints or even poor fuel economy. "Why" you ask, "does low fuel settings result in poor economy?" I've never understood if it's driver style or some strange engineering principles, but it is often the case.



Caveat two: My background is working in a fuel injection shop. Our cardinal rules were: 1. It should never smoke - smoke means you did something wrong. 2. Do stuff the best way (not the cheap, easy, or convenient way), because it's far better to explain to the customer why his bill is a little high, than to make up excuses why you did something half-baked. After the first time you try to save him a few bucks and he has trouble, you realize he'll eventually forget the size of the bill if you did it right, but he'll NEVER forget you did a crappy job.



And again, you, the driver, have no means of carefully tuning the pump, probably are unable to ascertain the effect of several inter-related adjustments. For instance, the reason to turn the diaphragm is to change the RATE at which the fuel inecreases vs the boost seen at the manifold - how quickly it comes in. But, because of the way the thing works, turning it changes your no-air, starting and endpoint for the boost compensation. Your "seat of the pants" test stand isn't that sensitive enough, and your "smoke meter" review mirror isn't all-revealing anyway...



So what do you do, when your truck seems to have no power below 2000 rpm? You make adjustments, and probably because it wasn't right in the first place. And, doing so will probably improve your efficiency and power. And that CAN'T be bad, can it?



And so I gulp, change threads, log off, go somewhere else, or, as I did in my once in a 1000 times, I respond to someone who appears to think that the first thing you should do is break open the boost compensator and twist, turn, and screw in the innards.



It's simply a matter of diminishing returns. Unless your injection pump is very poorly calibrated (and there's far too many of those... if you have one, well, this really doesn't apply to you... but, you have no way of knowing. If your truck doesn't "go", and you don't know how it "goes" when "right", then... ??? You see my dilemma?) changing those things generally doesn't result in even 1 more horsepower. The most you can do is get more power when you don't have turbo boost. But it has no effect (when the pump is set right, again... ) on anything once you get past some 12 psi boost, if memory serves. That is controlled by the fuel screw on the side.



The major effect of this is rarely correcting a serious deficiency (but, sometimes it does, pumps that will never reach full fuel because the settings are SO bad HAVE been seen), but just creating a short blast of smoke until the turbo winds up.



And, as I said at the beginning of all this mess, if you're going to drag race... you DO need full power at every possible moment. But if you're not, why make the smoke and waste fuel and create more heat than you need?



I understand you want your truck to run "good". I detest poor-running vehicles. And I am rarely satisified with merely as "good as factory" performance. That being said, the little "belch" that comes out when you start, the short stream of smoke if you happen to "lug" it in traffic, or the smoke you get from high altitude are unavoidable. I know that, you know that, and so do a few others. But they ad fuel to the fury of the environmental movement, and to the mis-guided souls who think that your engines are "dirty" and a danger to clean air. They are wrong, but how do you convince them of that when they see vehicles with a long stream of black stinky stuff coming out? Trying to explain to them that stuff isn't hazardous to their life is like trying to explain nuclear fission to someone who doesn't speak your language.



And so, my one in every 500 posts on keeping the air clean and not fiddling with adjustments you can't possibly fine - tune comes to a close... Probably without affecting anyone's eventual actions...



If you're thinking that the last elusive 5 horsepower is to be found by twisting and turning things there, but your truck runs really good as it is now... I implore you NOT to change things. For all good and virtuous reasons, too. If it won't run right... then do what you have to do... In small steps, stopping before you create an excuse to regulate you, by imposing things like smog checks (I think they are mostly useless, but... it makes regulators happy to have more to do, and it gives those who lobby for them self-annointed virtue, but that's another story altogether) that'll make it really hard to have your truck run "good" and be legal.



Now, was I clear, or did I just bury myself and pull the hole in with me?
 
You were clear PowerWagon:D I was taking in account for this. I don't want a ton of smoke, I see too many of them. I was asking that if I bombed my truck and it smoked like a freight train, what do you do to relieve the amount of smoke? Isn't there a smoke adjustment screw? I should've been more clearer in the beginning.



Thanks Power Wagon.



John
 
Wowzer! PW... great posting

Hey Power Wagon!:)



It's posting like the one above that illustrates the reasoning behind "US" 'Rectangular Truck Guys' "NEEDING" to get you into a classic First Generation. It's all a selfish motivation to force you to spend more time in our forum!:)



Have all of US First Generation Guys checked out this posting to assist PW?



Get a Good Man a Truck Campaign - CLICK HERE



If you can... take $20. 00 out of the BOMBing fund & ship it!



KEENO:D
 
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Straight from the heart PW. Gotta luv it.

Let me encourage you to keep the old motto... illegitumus non carborundum (My latin spelling sucks) = don't let the ba$tard$ wear you down.

This place is all about different views,knowledge and experiences and you should express yours.



Regards, Bush'
 
Originally posted by J DeMaio

You were clear PowerWagon:D I was taking in account for this. I don't want a ton of smoke, I see too many of them. I was asking that if I bombed my truck and it smoked like a freight train, what do you do to relieve the amount of smoke? Isn't there a smoke adjustment screw? I should've been more clearer in the beginning.



Thanks Power Wagon.



John



Depending on WHEN it smokes will determine what you need to adjust.



If it'll smoke all the time on a hard pull, then you need to turn the main fuel screw down - as in, back it out.



If it only smokes when you first hit the pedal, or a big puff when you shift, then need less "no-air" fuel. Basically, it means backing out the little screw on the top of the diaphragm housing.



If you have dramatically adjusted the "star wheel" (the cogged adjusting wheel under the diaphragm) it can have the same effect, as even very slight boost will cause it to move to "full fuel", instead of waiting for the turbo to spool up a bit.



Honestly, I do not remember which way you turn the cogged wheel under the diaphragm or the diaphragm itself. It has been a year and a half or more since I touched one. I'm sure somebody here has it written down which way to get "more"... and you just "undo" it.



Also, some of you may have noticed a little rubber "boot" on the upper part of the pump near the diaphragm. If you take that off and remove the little "nut" under it, you can use a WD40 can with the little red tube to squirt some lubricant and rust prevention in there. Do it annually. It may save you quite a bit of money on pump repairs on a rarely-driven truck. Make sure you put the boot back on and point it downward to keep dirt and moisture out.
 
More giddy-up-go

Since you like tinkering try this. Looking at the injection pump loosen the jam nuts and remove the metal rod connecting the throttle linkage ball crank to the injection pump throttle arm. Remove the return springs. Move the ball and head from the outer hole on the injection pump throttle arm to the inner hole, the one nearest to the pump. Both of the holes are a little oversized for the stud so you need to make sure you push it toward the rear of the truck before you tighten it. Lubricate both ends of the rod with WD-40 or something similar and reinstall it into the ball heads. Try to start both ends at the same time. This is important so you can get the maximum adjustment in the rod. Twist the rod to remove all the slack between the injection pump throttle arm and the throttle linkage ball crank. Start the truck and twist the rod to make sure you don't change your idle speed. Tighten the jam nuts and replace the springs. The kickdown spring will rub slightly on the metal rod. Now you can back off the max RPM stop screw and zippy-do-dah watch your RPM, shift points and top end go up. You may have to adjust the TPI if you don't go into OD at WOT. Also, if by chance you still have the plastic balls and heads now would be a good time to upgrade to the steel ones. Happy motoring. :D
 
I don't reccommend this with an auto.



The automatic depends upon pushing that "kickdown" linkage to raise the fluid pressures to adequate levels to hold the bands/clutches to prevent slippage. The farther you push the pedal, the more line pressure the transmission has.



If you don't push this lever far enough, the pressures drop quite dramatically, and the transmission will shift "slow" and "easy", with lower pressure. This can result in lazy shifts and/or some slipping at the "gear change" point.



You might be able to adjust the linkage to the transmission enough to have it at full travel when t he throttle is at full travel, but then the mid and starting points will be off. I say "might" because on at least some rigs, there isn't much adjustment room left.



Just FYI...
 
I am running an auto and so far everything feels good. I may have to make an adjustment on the linkage but the TPS will get it first. I appreciate the feed back though. I've got to say the extra RPM is a real kick in the pants.
 
New Install ???

Power Wagon, I appreciate your wisdom and the desire to help those of us along that are new to this arena. I recently purchased a '91 W250 donor truck with the Cummins engine. I plan to put it into an '84 crew cab dually.



My questions relate to two changes I plan to make in the original layout. The first is that I plan to add an intercooler. From my knowledge of thermodynamics, boost is lost as the hot boosted air cools and contracts in the intercooler. This results in a loss of air delivery pressure, but technically the same amount of oxygen. My question is whether the cooler air charge is worth more than the loss in pressure?



The other idea I have is to change turbo housings to increase the boost while reducing the rpm required to create the boost. My question here is do you need to mess with the diaphragm to change the rate of fuel delivery to match the change in the rate of air delivery? I thought that maybe the diaphragm would counter this as it deals with the pressure anyway. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.



If it is any consolation, I do help many others on the Moparchat racing pages. I just don't know much about the Cummins diesel engine yet.
 
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