2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Fuel Tank Float - How many of us had to change it because it deteriorated?

[rweis]

Here is the gauge with the arm shortened and the PF float attached. You have to unattach the float then install the gauge then reach in the tank and re attach the float.



The reason why:



The gauge takes a center hole big enough to get the gauge body through. The float takes another about 1/4" bigger hole. By then you are running out of distance between the screw hole and the hole big enough to pass the float through and wind up with the screw hole about with in 1/8" of the center hole.



By making the center hole big enough for the gauge you have about 1/4" of tank body from the screw hole to the center hole.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

Here you see the gauge installed on my 02 tank. the swing of the float is forward. You will notice there is a little verticle cylindrical tit like casting on the gauge body top. That tit goes TOWARD the driveline. The tit also lets you know in what direction and angle the float swing is.



The tit on the right, the float swing is forward and the angle of the float swing to the gauge tit is 90*. So with the tit perpendicular to the driveline side of the tank the float swing is parallel to the driveline side of the tank.



The mechanical indicator is sitting in the gauge body for this picture. You are going to get the remote capsule and replace the mechanical capsule with the remote capsule. The remote capsule looks like the mechanical one except it has an additional reading device in the middle of the capsule and has 2 wires comming from that center reading device.



Look at the Tempo catalog the part 420110 and you will see the differences.



You are only seeing 1/2 of the install (the outside of the tank part). Under the gauge on the tank side is another gasket and the 366LP-F steel mounting plate with the threaded screw holes for the screws you see in this picture. Another nice feature of mounting it with the 366LP-F plate is you can go back and snug the screws without opening the tank up. You would have to drop the tank some because there is no room for a screw driver with the tank mounted.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

Here is my canister (mainly draw straw) setup (you do not use the OEM wiring connector any longer. I left it there to fill the hole that would have been opened up if I took the OEM wiring connector out). I run a vent line attached to the roll over nipple up to the aux tank vent to connect the two tanks vent systems. The canister lock ring is not on in this picture.



As I mentioned before i had put the aux tank feed inot the draw straw 2nd port (the one you see plugged in this picture). That method caused the 0602 code because (I think) the VP44 return line that is in the tank vent line could not push (at low rpm) against the weight of the aux tank fuel gravity pressure.



With the Northern Tool gravity tank feed check valve that shuts off the fuel flow when the fuel level gets to the check valve, the VP44 return does not work against any gravity pressure.



I plugged (not installed a second AN-6 fitting for future use) the 2nd port because there is so little room to get a wrench to tighten the draw straw pickup AN-6 fitting when the tank is in the install position, replacing the 2nd AN-6 fitting with a plug now gives enough room to use a wrench with less mechanical and space limitation interfearance. Still not a piece of cake, but much more workable.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

This is just a quickie picture of the bottom of my cannister to show the draw straw exiting the cannister and that I had taken the filter screen basket off the cannister.



Bob Weis

 

[ILIANBG]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the posts and pictures. As always so helpful. I can not wait to get mine done. I am really glad you are doing this, and passing the knowledge to others.

Ilian

 

[DPrew]

My float went south at about 85K on my 02'.

 

[PAckley]

Bought my truck used, the fuel gauge measured always empty. Used car Dealer fixed it.
Later, after the juice/edge was monitoring fuel pressure I would get very low pressure which took out VP44. I replaced fuel sender and discovered dealer had put the mesh filter on with a zip tie! Which failed and the collapsed mesh was the cause. Expensive! New sender assembly works fine! Cleaned tank out during process as there was lots of sediment.

 

[rweis]

I'm taking a 2k mile, 3 week camping trip (towing 5er) and should know throughly how the final solution holds up. I will report back about July 25th or so.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

I'm on the road. Mechanical w/remote capsule working well. Only step yet to do is rate the gauge reading with actual fuel used. Very pleased we have a permanent fix.

Finding that the Northern Tool gravity check valve will flow enough fuel to cover DD'2s plus fill OEM tank very, very, very, slowly. OEM @ 1/2, then feed 45 gallons from AUX, feed all 45 gallons and only brought OEM tank up to 3/4. This is towing 5er 13k, @ 65 mph in mtns, ie close to WOT. Northern Tool check valve does function correctly as a check valve though.



Bob Weis

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have received Bob's OEM sender and float - Thanks Bob!



I'm working on an alternate "solution" and detailed photo bit that displays the OEM sender, float and individual components. I'll also be trying an alternate solution to the deteriorating float issue, and will start a separate thread - things pretty hectic here, various RVing trips and summer activities - but I'll "Gitt'er done" eventually! :-laf

 

[rweis]

Well, I'm home after almost 3k miles towing the 13k 5er.

Observations:



1. I still have to rate the mechanical fuel level sender. The float and parallel resistor seem to work fine. BUT: The drawback seems to be sealing the new mounting. I am getting a little seepage. Not a full leak, or dripping, but the side of the tank at that location of the step install is having a seepage. IF you can not handle the seepage then DO NOT do the mechanical fuel float install, ie do not cut into the tank.



2. The gravity feed system works ok. I run DD2's and the Northern Tool garvity feed system will keep up with DD2's under a full towing load and fill the tank - s l o w l y -. I have been thinking of going to Mach 4's eventually and the gravity feed MIGHT not keep up, then I will use a electric pump. What I found to be operational was to fill the OEM tank through the normal filler tube, install the OEM fuel cap, then fill the aux bed tank full. The main advantage I found is I can drive virtually all day without fuel stops which means I can average a higher mph at the same mph (I drive 60 - 65 mph with the 5er, gotta be able to stop the beast you know). I use to average 50 mph with stops etc, now average 60 mpg because of no stops. Also nice when out in the middle of NOWHERE because you have 750 mile range ( I normally go about 500 miles though, and have a 250 mile pad for finding fuel the next day)) with the morning fuel stop.



The Draw Straw or equivalent (and fixing the cannister pickup and filter problem) is a must. With my RASP and going through some pretty hilly backroads, the fp never went below 14 psi. The Draw Straw (and AN-6 lines) could deliver all the fuel to the RASP that the RASP could pump through itself.



Side note on fuel heat: Yesterday it got to 105 OAT on the interstate. The fuel going into the VP44 was 125*, the fuel comming out was 140*. This is the hottest fuel I have ever seen at anytime in almost 2 years. Without fuel coolers and dumping the return fuel into the vent line I bet would have seriously done long term damage to the VP44 PSG. I have an OAT blower on the PSG and my PSG was 115*. If you do not cool your fuel I certainly would think about the conditions in which you normally drive.



Side note on 105* OAT: We saw more tire failure than ever. I monitor my tire pressure and temperature (SmarTire) and slowed down from 67 mph to 60 mph to cool the tires from 145* to 132*. After about an hour I had a 5er tire blow. Heat will cause tire failure. I talked to the highway patrol officer that stopped to help and he said there is a direct relationship between OAT and tire failure. He has 30 years on the F(lorida)HP. Slow down if the OAT starts to get really hot to help prevent tire failure. Mine blew anyway, but easier to control and was just changing a 5er tire on the side of the road, not a huge deal (if you have the right tools).



I will rate the float travel to fuel used in the next week or two and I will be done with the float problem. Be sure to read the seepage problem above, however.



I am satisfied with the mechanical fuel float. I would like to find an absolute seal to the mechanical fuel float mechanism, but am very happy with the solution. The seepage only happens when you are running off the aux tank (because the OEM tank is already full the aux is filling the already full OEM tank as you use fuel). If you used an electrical pump as needed system this should never a problem, and I might change from the gravity system to a pump on demand type system.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

Update:



I have rated the first tank for gauge linearity.



The Tempo Gauge and resistor combination tracks perfectly. I graphed the data I have been gathering every 1/8th tank and it is virtually a straight line.



I only went down to 1/4 tank to be on the safe side and not run the VP44 dry. At 1/4 tank to go it took 21. 5 gallons and the overhead showed 111 miles to go.



Now that I know 1/4 tank is safe I will take it to the low fuel warning light and then see how much fuel it takes. I think it is going to be a little conservative and at low fuel warning light be about 23 gallons where before the mods it was 24 gallons.



I have found some fuel tank sealer to apply to the outside of a tank and within the next month or so will drop the tank and seal the "extra" holes I did when I put the gauge in backwards and then the tank should be sealed and not weep.



Overall I am very pleased with the DrawStraw, Tempo gauge and remote sender, and the mounting willl be corrected when I seal the "extra" holes.



When I filled up this morning the OEM gauge started registering fuel used right away. Before the mods I had to drive about 100 miles before the OEM gauge would show fuel used because the OEM float was about 1 1 /2" under the surface of the fuel at filler neck full.



So far so good, just need to go another 450 miles and take the OEM gauge to the low fuel warning light and see exactely where that is going to be and how much fuel the tank has as a reserve. Should be in another 3 weeks or so, will report back then.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

I'm half way through the second tank tommorrow, about another week and I will have the final result of the "low fuel" warning light test and the subsequent refuel.



Bob Weis

 

[fairmont]

Bob,

Did you order the "Stewart Warner 366LP-F Fuel Level mounting kit (~ $25). " online, I can't find any vendors in a google search.

 

[fairmont]

Found it on the Advance Auto site. Summit Racing has them too, but not in stock, expected ship date from them 09/01.

 

[rweis]

I got it from the local auto parts store. They ordered it from their supplier and it took about 3 days to get there. It definitely helps the install primarily because it provides a firm mounting plate on the inside of the tank.



Bob Weis

 

[fairmont]

Parts are on the way:



Vulcan Draw Straw

Tempo 420060 Mechanical Fuel Gauge

Tempo 420110 Remote Read Capsule

Stewart Warner 366LP-F Installation Kit

Roberts Mfg PF26 Float.

(had to order 10, so I'll have extras if anyone else decides to go this route)



Just need to pick up the 2700 Ohm 1 Watt resistor (Radioshack???)



Do I need a prefilter before I go into the AirDog if I eliminate the screen on the fuel module? I don't know if the AirDog pulls fuel through its filters or if the fuel goes into the pump first and is then pushed through its filters.

 

[rweis]

Well, got to the "low fuel" warning light tonight.



OEM refuel was 24 gallons leaving 11 gallons in the tank.

New fuel level indicator was 23 gallons leaving 12 gallons in the tank.



Close enough for me. I will run 1 more tank down just to double check it, but I think the setup is validated.



JUST BE SURE TO MOUNT THE MECHANICAL GAUGE SO THAT IT SWINGS >>>>> FORWARD <<<<<.



I think I have a handle on a 02 tank that I can mount it forward correctly the FIRST time and then not have any seepage. Then this project will be history.



We have ALL learned a lot about the fuel tank, good discussions, AND we have a permanent fix to the float / rheostat / fuel pickup / fuel return issues.



On my truck the only OEM parts left to the fuel system are the tank, the VP44, the VP44 return line that goes to the engine T, the engine T fitting, and the dash gauge, and the "low fuel" warning light.



I really had fun figuering out how to get the fuel system worked out, and thanks, for all the inputs, and help, and encouragement.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

I am 1/2 way through the 3rd tank and the usage is tracking extremely well. I will go to 1/8th tank to verify the "low fuel" warning for the second time (tank) and the amount of fuel the tank takes.



Richard is going to do his this weekend. This is important because it is a different person doing it and their observations and what they consider are things to be extra careful of. This will add to the body of information from a different perspective.



I have a line on a used tank (02) I am going to swap out mine with so it will only have holes where they are supposed to be (not installed with the float going the wrong direction) then I think I will be finished with this project. It has been a good experience though.



GOOD LUCK to Richard and document your work well so we can all learn.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

3rd tank done, 23. 25 gallons at "low fuel " warning light. That is verified now. I am comfortable that the "low fuel" warning light with the mechanical sender is very close to the same level fuel remaining as the OEM "low fuel" warning light.



I feel I am done with this "project". It all tracks well. I am willing to help others in any way I can, but my testing / validation is complete.



Richard had an interesting question "does the OEM gauge "slosh around?" Answer NO.



What I am finding is the gauge does not move AT ALL from shutdown for the first several minutes. It seems tied to water temp. Until the ECM determines the engine system is stable it really does not sample the fuel level indicator. Then it samples it a couple times a minute and seems to do some sort of an average of the last x readings until it fine tunes the fuel gauge reading.



If you look at your mpg it works the same way. The VP44 will not go to a lean "normal" mode (from it's slightly rich startup mode) until the engine temp is stable.



The fuel gauge sampling seems to start about the same time the ECM goes into "normal" mode.



Richard is doing his this weekend.



Ilianbg is getting his parts together to do his.



JUST BE SURE THE FLOAT ROTATES FORWARD TOWARD THE FRONT OF THE TANK



Bob Weis