Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Fuel Transfer (Lift) Pump Service Life

[HBarlow]

I know that most Gen II owners believe the lift pumps on our trucks are failure prone so I want to share an experience.



With 68k miles my OEM pump failed and was replaced under warranty at my local Dodge dealer. Thanks to the TDR I recognized the symptoms immediately and drove the truck straight to the dealer for a replacement before the injection pump was damaged.



The replacement pump has been on the truck for almost 100k miles and I've been expecting it to fail at anytime. I've been on the road a lot recently pulling trailers out of Indiana and didn't want to experience a breakdown. I had never replaced one and am not much of a mechanic so tonight, while I'm home for a few days, I asked a friend who is a Dodge dealership mechanic to come over and supervise and direct me as I replaced the pump. I wanted to know that I could replace one myself if I have a failure on the road.



Before removing it we ran the standard diagnostic to check flow rate. In one cycle the pump transferred 1. 5 quarts or about 48 ounces of fuel into a jug. The odometer read 167,247 miles. I hated to do it but I removed a perfectly good lift pump with 99,000 miles on it and replaced it with a new one.



Apparently Cummins improved the service life of fuel transfer pumps after the initial high failure rates experienced.



Harvey

 

[DocStressor]

I don't mean to highjack your thread, but I have a related question.



I just had my transfer pump tested at a dealer ($85!) and it flowed 48 oz. I was told that this was the minimum spec and that if performance dropped below 48 oz, the pump needed to be replaced. They told me that new pumps deliver 56 oz. They wanted to change out the pump for $400+. Yeah I know, I should stay away from dealers. But my question: Is 48 oz really the borderline spec for replacement? The service manual for my '99 doesn't say anything about this flow volume test. It just indicates a minimum of 10 psi at idle and 5-7 psi during cranking.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm not an expert here but I think my mechanic friend said 40 oz. to 48 oz. was the spec. I'm certain he didn't mention the 56 oz. figure.



We used a Shell Rotella one gallon plastic jug to catch and measure the pump output because I was changing the engine lube oil as we prepared to do the transfer pump exchange. The empty oil container was perfect because it has the window slot with volume markings on one side.



Your friendly Dodge dealer may have been trying a little too hard to protect you from a breakdown caused by a failed transfer pump.



I don't know where to look for the pump flow rate spec or flow rate test in writing. I think dealers and STAR initially used the pressure test method early in the Gen II cycle and later switched to the flow rate test. The test may be described in internal dealer service department sources or may just be word of mouth.



I'll try to remember to ask my friend when I have the opportunity and post his reply here.



Harvey

 

[DocStressor]

Thanks for your input regarding the flow volume measurement. They measured 13 psi of fuel pressure at idle, which should be well within specs. I think they were just trying to sell me a new pump. They also said that my steering box was "slightly" worn and wanted to sell me one of those for $1,400 as well.



I just bought one of those idiot lights for fuel pressure. I'll stay with the old pump and just keep an eye on things.

 

[Bob4x4]

The new specs... . flow instead of pressure came from Cummins. It is all part of the new test procedure outlined in a tsb.



Bob

 

[rkressg]

The new specifications from Cummins is relative to volume and not pressure, which I think is around 45-50 oz of fuel / min (I can not remember off hand). They no longer go by pressure.



With regard to your LP life cycle, I went though 8 lift pumps in 50,000 miles. I have a Quad Cab with a Long Bed. After the first VP44 failure, I changed to a FASS. For the last 50,000 Miles, I have successfully run the FASS with no problems. Hopfully it lasts for another 50,000 miles.



Also, you can buy a lift pump from Cummins for around $150 if you get to know the parts guy; they take around 15 min to change.



-Rich

 

[DocStressor]

I'm thinking of going the FASS route myself. Do you have just the pump or the pump plus filters set Rich? Does the pump make a lot of noise?

 

[rkressg]

I personally run the FASS-1 (the one with the filters), but I have installed both types on many trucks. I prefer the FASS-1, but it costs more, and for performance wise, the FASS-2 has the same pump, just not the filters, therefore, it can still pump the same volume of fuel. With the FASS-2 you need to keep the stock fuel/water separator/filter assembly on the engine. If you want to keep performance up with this setup, you will need to remove the banjo bolts on from the filter to the VP44, and replace them with free flow fittings. Also, with the FASS-2, if you have a short-bed pickup, you will need to add a 90deg fitting on the send side of the pump, or else you stand a chance of kinking the fuel line.



With regard to the pump making noise, yes it does make significantly more noise than the stock pump. Will you be able to hear it when the truck is running, doubtful. These trucks make a lot of noise while running, and unless you stick my head under a truck with one, I doubt you will ever hear it run.



Some people have modified the fuel sending unit in the tank and removed the plastic lines, and replaced them with steel pipe, and have seen success with reducing the amount of noise of the pump. The positive benefit of this mod is, the FASS pump is very strong, and can cause a flapper to form in the plastic pickup line in the tank, stopping or slowing the performance of the pump, increasing the amount of noise of the pump, and decreasing the life of the pump.



Overall, if you can afford it, I would go with the original FASS (the one with the filters) and just get rid of the fuel filter/canister on the truck.



Also, unless you are running more than 500 hp, you only need the 3/8" setup.



-Rich

 

[DocStressor]

Thanks again Rich. That was very informative.



I just have one last question. My engine is bone stock and I'm only interested in the FASS for increased reliability. Is there a way to reduce the fuel pressure a bit? I've read that the line pressure with the FASS is to the order of 22 psi. Almost doubling the pressure on a stock engine can't be very good for the VP44.

 

[rkressg]

All the FASS-1's I have seen usually produce around 16-18psi. The FASS-2 usually produce around 8-10psi. The fuel pressure is adjustable on the FASS setups. There is a spring and a checkball inside the FASS that regulates the fuel pressure. If you want to increase the fuel pressure, you can buy a stronger spring (or just strech it out a little) and the same goes for reducing pressure.



As for too much head pressure at the VP44, it is designed to handle between 7 and 17 psi of pressure (or somewhere in the neighborhood). Think of this in the same fashion as the oil pump on your engine. There are guys on this board who are running 30+ psi to the VP44, That would be like giving your engine 150psi of oil pressure. Though in the short run, you will not damage anything, in the long run, you stand the potential of washing out a bearing inside the engine. The same is true for the VP44. There are extremely tight tolerances inside that pump, and too much pressure can cause damage just as much so as too little pressure.



The solution is to maintain a steady 12-16 psi of pressure and produce enough volume. That is what the FASS does.



If you do go with the FASS-2, remove the banjo bolts on the filter housing and VP44 and replace the connecting fuel line with a high flow setup. Look up a member here named "Oil Burner" he has a parts list for installing that connencting fuel line.



-Rich

 

[DocStressor]

Thanks again!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Thru this and similar boards, we have seen *MANY* examples of failed VP-44's due to failed lift pumps and low/no fuel pressure to the VP-44.



To the best of my knowledge, there have been NO failures known to have been caused by too MUCH pressure to the VP-44 - so guess which side of the PSI issue *I* want to be on! :-laf

 

[pfmoale]

I found an outfit that sells a type of booster pump, sort of what the FASS system is... Below is my message to them:



I installed a "Banks" Power Pack (the big one) on my 2001 24V Cummins 4X4 last year. I did check fuel pressure before starting , as they requested. Fuel pressure did fall within the tolerance range.

Friend @ work has a 1999 24V Cummins, (2WD) and has had lift AND injector pump failure with his, twice.

Questions:

1. How many of the "booster pump" units have been sold, AND are people satisified with them??



2. Seems kind of redundant to me, to have a light telling me that I have not enough fuel pressure, just when I have pushed my foot to the floor, towing our 7K lb travel trailer, up a hill, passing a big rig..... , not the best time for lift and injector pump to fail! Makes more sence to install the "booster pump", so none of the prementioned stuff happens, right?



3. What kind of feed back have you gotten from folks who have installed the "booster pump"?, plus and minus ?



4. Let's see, spend how many hundred $ to save an injector pump that costs how many thousand $?



5. I have only 29,000 miles on the truck now.



6. Any opinions on upgrading the Dodge/Chrysler 4 speed atuo transmission? Seems like the extra punch from the "Banks" up grade will fail the trans early.



I welcome any and all remarks or opinions you may have to my questions.



Thanking you in advance,



Peter





Below is the reply I received:



The duel feed pumps made by BD POWER, sell well and as far as i know everyone seems to be satisfied with them, the difference between the BD POWER kit and other kits, is that the second feed pump doesn't come on until the engine starts. Other kits deliver too much fuel pressure when trying to turn the enigne over, causing hard start issues. The dual kit is a good saftey precaution and a mandatory addition if adding extra HP via chips or programmers!!!







As for The LED WARNING system or some other kind of fuel pressure gauge. Lets see how can i put it???



"a LED WARNING light cost around $66. 00 witch warns me when a $195. 00 feed pump is going bad witch in turn will destroy my $1100-1600 fuel injection pump if not replaced in a timely manner. "



Comments on the above???



Thanks,



Peter

 

[DocStressor]

Peter, the lift pumps don't generally fail all of a sudden, although this can happen. So if you see the light come on at WOT, it lets you back off the throttle and warns you that the your lift pump is starting to go South and needs to be replaced.



At least that's the theory behind using the light or a fuel pressure gauge.

 

[OTRPU]

"Peter, the lift pumps don't generally fail all of a sudden, although this can happen. "



Heck, I've seen one putting out 8 lbs at idle, "out of the box". Last one's lasted 15k, I'm onna roll.



Cheers,

Steve J

 

[Oil Burner]

Rich,

FYI new fass II pumps are running around 20 psi! Mine is an early versioin putting out 10 psi. I'm going to toss in a new spring tomorrow, but if it is too heavy, I'll back it off.



Thanks,

Jason

 

[rkressg]

J,

Thanks for the info, let me know how the new spring works out.

-Rich

Rich,

FYI new fass II pumps are running around 20 psi! Mine is an early versioin putting out 10 psi. I'm going to toss in a new spring tomorrow, but if it is too heavy, I'll back it off.



Thanks,

Jason