Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Fuel woes - mayday, mayday, code 216!!

[Crazygoat]

I am new to this site and I come with a bit of a puzzle.



I have a 2001 Ram 2500 with auto transmission (wish had the manual), with a Edge Comp fueling/timing box, AFE system, 4" exhaust, and with fuel delivery problems. The dealer changed the lift pump about 1 year ago and now it appears to have a similar problem. The thing is that the fuel pressure sensor (comming off the VP44 shrader valve) sometimes reads 15 psi (usually colder days) but today (much hotter) it only got to 6 psi and dropped down to 3 psi.



The truck also has dropped the fuel mileage and every once in a while it has a hard time starting. I checked the codes today and it shows the infamous PCU P1693 and the ECU P0216; what does this mean?? I know my fuel gage is working thanks to the guys at Geno's (new sensor and all).



Another problem I been getting is the dead pedal. At times, only when I start the truck, I hit the pedal but nobody is home. The funny thing is that the engine fuel pressure is high (12 psi), and the engine appears to rev slowly (sometimes faster than others) but the beast will only crawl. What gives? If I stop and cycle the pedal a few times, the trucks moves along like if nothing is wrong with it. This occurs maybe once or twice a week.



Is it one problem or is it two? Odds that it is athe lift pump for problem 1, but is it the Throttle Position Sensor for problem 2? At 180 for a lift pump and 450 for a sensor assembly I am looking at Toyotas!! (Did I say that out loud?).



Anyhow, I would appreciate your wisdom in this matter.



Thanks,



DaGoat.

 

[JL penner]

P0216 (M) Fuel Injection Pump Timing Failure High fuel supply restriction, low fuel pressure or possible

wrong or incorrectly installed pump keyway.





from what I've read, your vp44 may be on it's way out. Your lift pump is most likely dead as well if you able to pull it down to 3 psi. You could look into one of the many options for fixing the lift pump (I run an 8 psi pusher pump after the tank and my stock pump still on the motor and I keep very steady numbers. My pusher is the carter from summit racing).



oh and btw, i'd remove the "chip" out of your description you gave of your setup. Some of these guys here will tear you apart... . it's fueling/timing box!! haha. . welcome to the TDR!

 

[Crazygoat]

That is what I am affraid of. Is it possible it is only the LP? How about the dead pedal syndrome?



Thanks for the "CHIP" tip!

 

[JL penner]

I have not personally had my vp go out, but my LP finally gave and started going to 0 psi when I'd get on it. I never felt any loss of power. But now I have a new LP and a new pusher and my pressure won't go below 15 psi and idles at 19~20 psi.



If it was me, I'd start with the simple/cheap stuff first. If your LP is dropping that low, you know it needs to be replaced. Hoesli is where I got mine (cheapest plus quick delivery)



http://www.hoeslidiesel.com/specials.htm



Then I would look around this site and read up on all the fixes a lot of us have done to prevent the LP from going out again. There are quite a few options:



FASS

Airdog

RASP

Pusher + stock (my personal choice that I have had great success with)

Stock moved down to frame

etc.



Some people just leave the stock one and carry a spare. Takes a half hour to change then you are back on the road again.





Once you get a new LP in, then you can start troubleshooting the VP44. That site I left is the cheapest I've ever seen them.



Hope that helps

 

[Crazy Horse]

Crazygoat, that's exactly what I'm going through right now. Going to see the dealer tomorrow. We'll se if they will do anything. I want to either go with the FASS or Glacier Diesel Power lift pump and get the VP replaced under warranty. . . we'll see. The truck only has approx 35,000 miles on it. I've only seen the Code 0216 once last weekend and have cleared it and removed the Smarty. I have also been having a few cases of "Dead Pedal" for about the last month. I agree it seems to only occur with warm temps especially after a hot restart. Here's some links for information on my findings:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164549



http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=109429&page=1&pp=15

 

[JL penner]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CRT-P4600HP&N=700+115&autoview=sku





This is the pusher pump I use.

To get power to it, you'll need to pick up a relay and wire the relay parallel with the existing stock pump. Then you run power from the battery to the pusher pump through the normally closed contacts of the relay. Very simple setup. But don't forget to fuse your new circuit... . Bad things can happen without fuses.





Once again, good luck with the project

 

[JayLetts]

Had the same codes and symptoms on my 2000, and after leaving it for way too long the truck failed to run at all. A new VP44 and replaced the stock Lp with a FASS system and the truck runs fantastic.

Jay(another new guy)

 

[DMannon]

There are a couple of real good articles on Blue Chip's site about the VP44 and why it fails:



http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/injectionpumpfailures.html



http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/VP44INFO.html



Chip sells a reman pump that supposedly uses a new case... read article.



I'm in the process of installing one of his pumps, but the project's on hold while I wait on a camshaft position sensor and some gaskets. I recently installed Glacier's 392 lift pump and big line kit. Excellent product.



Both Blue Chip and Glacier have great customer service. Both have spent a lot of time on the phone helping me diagnose my truck.

 

[RAndrae]

Dead pedal & 216 code=== new injection pump, no way out

 

[Crazygoat]

I am surprised of how common this problem is. With a truck with less than 70K miles, I am down to 2 LP's and maybe an injector pump... does not leave much for trust. I guess I'll have to keep spares handy.



I am leaning to get a pusher pump with the stock pump. The reason is that I am planning some trips to Baja California and I might want to keep it stock so that I can find easy replacements (just in case).



A mechanic mentioned that the dead pedal could be the throttle position sensor; something about wearing down the carbon/slide mechanism. This part is only $450 :-laf which would be better than a injector pump at $1150 (rebuilt from MidWest Fuel Injection). But how do I make sure it is one and not the other? (maybe both ).



I'll checkk all the threads you guys mention. I been finding out that diesel mechanics are hard to find in my neck of the woods (Nederland, CO) and going to the Boulder dealer is like being raped by a bunch of monkeys. It feels like they are turning me upside down to get all my change :-laf .

 

[Crazygoat]

After reading Blue Chips articles it makes me want to buy his IP. Is it worth the extra $? I have seen the rebuilt pumps for $1150, but his argument seems to justify the extra $450. I also like the idea of the connector saver they sell...



The more I read, the more I think my issues are related to a faulty VP and LP. With so many of us having this issue, we should have a class action sute (sp?) againts dodge :-{} .

 

[Crazygoat]

OK, I ordered a stock LP, but I am thinking that I might need a pusher pump and maybe a nev VP44 . (this is on a truck with 70K miles, and I already changed one LP)



What to get and from whom? I am tempted by the Blue Chip, although now I heard about the HR44VP... both run around $1600 where a stock VP is $1100. The HR44VP pumps up your horse power, where as the Blue Chip seems that it might be a more reliable pump... Any more insights, anyone?



I am looking to get a pusher pump to assist the LP as JL mentioned the Carter Unit (CRT P4600HP), but I am not sure if this is a gasoline type pump or does it matter? Instead of the Carter pusher pump could I also use a Glasier GFS-392 pump in combination with the stock LP? I think the glasier is an LP of its own... Can someone clarify this for me?



So, here I am ready to lay down about $2300 to fix a rpoblem that is more common in Dodges than a common cold, any advice is deeply appreciated.



Thanks,



DaGoat.

 

[JL penner]

I believe the carter is rated for both Gas and diesel. I've been running mine for well over a year (about 50k miles) with no problems at all. I also believe there are others who have had the same success with them. The only problems I've had with mine were with my initial shoddy wiring job. I have since corrected it and have had no other problems. Do a search with the carter part number and you should find plenty to read about here on the forums. Good luck



JL

 

[DMannon]

First off, let me just say that my main focus is on a dependable running, more or less stock truck. I'm more interested in dependability and MPG than higher HP. Once you start down the fueling enhancement road, you need to start thinking about transmission upgrades.



You might be better off with a stock size pump and a Smarty, depending on how much HP increase you're interested in. DEFINITELY HAVE GAUGES, EGT, boost, FP, at the least.



Some people have had OK luck with the Carters. A lot (like you and me) have had bad luck. Why would you want two on the truck? I think if I were you, I'd change horses to either Glacier or Fass. The Walbro pump used by Glacier is readily available and about the same price as a Carter. Google Walbro fuel pumps. Super easy to change out, especially with GDP's big line kit. Lots of people on TDR swear by the Fass pumps.



As for your VP, if you're going the HR route, you want to make sure whatever lift pump setup you use will be able to handle the extra fueling requirement. Search the forums on Blue Chip and HRVP44. I've heard nothing but praise for Blue Chip. The folks who have the HR by Industrial Injection rave about about them.



As long as you're working on the fuel sytem, you might want to check out this thread:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162110

My guess is a lot of our problems are caused by crap on the fuel pickup restricting flow. I'm definitely planning on dropping my tank when I get down closer to empty and taking a look.



Decide what it is you want out of your truck and shop accordingly. Oh, and you usually get what you pay for...

 

[Crazygoat]

Excellent read. I will be dropping the tank and checking it out... and the inline screen seems like a good approach to monitor the crud going thru the lines. good advice.



The more I read the crazier it's getting to maintain a diesel truck... enzymes to kill bacteria, prefilters, replace original pumps, change them again, etc, etc. It must be love...

 

[DMannon]

The more I read the crazier it's getting to maintain a diesel truck... enzymes to kill bacteria, prefilters, replace original pumps, change them again, etc, etc. It must be love...

It's better... if you really get sick and tired of her, someone will pay to take her off your hands... :-laf

 

[Crazygoat]

OK, I bit the bullet and jumped horses; I went for the FASS sytem. I got a good deal from VULCAN which had the cleanable screen and adaptors to mount directly onto the FASS system.



I'll eventually drop the tank and check in there and see what crawls out of there... I am planning on first installing the new LP and see if the dreaded 216 comes back. If it does, I am thinking I'll buy the injector pump from Industrial Injection (II). I been talking to all the mentioned players in this thread, and off all of them, the guys at II do their mods and rebuilds in house and ensure they install the greatest and latest harware (including the computer) and software. These guys are working with the latest and greatest changes from BOSCH (I think they are in Rev 3 or 4 of the VP44 pump), and they make sure that the pumps they sell incorporate the latest body and bushings (currently now made of steel with a black coated shaft - I think it might be Titanium Nitride - guess). I also had a chance to talk to the guys from Blue Chip and their main argument for their pumps is that their electronics are upgraded, meaning that they are beffier and less susceptible to heat cycles (which they claim that makes these pumps fail more often than not).



Now, Blue Chip offers a cover ($50) where the wire tap is not as obvious and they are more open to the idea of having an aftermarket fuel injection mapping device (EDGE COMP) than Industrial Injection is with their pumps. So, there it is: Blue Chip ($1650) with a better computer and wire tap method, or Industrial Injection ($1050) with an in house worked pump (and voiding guarantee if the wire is spliced).



There you have it folks.



DaGoat

 

[spooky]

my truck had the same code a week ago ,started getting harder to start, losing power and gas milage went to hell 6mpg. and im putting in gauges in to monitor everything,the trucks at the dealer now getting a new lift pump and they moved the lift pump to the gas tank new retro fit kit arg,and a new vp44 pump. when i get the truck home im removing the in tank pump and putting in a fass. i have a edge comp, 4inch mbrp exhaust,ats arc flow intake and afe stage 1 filter