G-56 guys, CLUTCH UPGRADE!! No more DMF!

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'm on somebody's ignore list? Help!



Doesn't it figure that the DMF is used to allow DC to use a weaker transmission (ie costs)? The spiking that peter talks about is pretty significant in a 6 cylinder diesel. It will be interesting to hear Junior's posts once completed. Why not focus on making or improving on the DMF? There are a lot of benefits to them if they can be made to live.

Only way I can see to "beef up" the DMF is to put in stronger springs - which totally defeats the basic operation and purpose of the DMF...



Bigger question, WHY wasn't all this DMF flywheel technology even NEEDED with a NV-5600?



I think we all KNOW the answer to THAT one!

 

[lmills]

Well, I can't comment on the G56 dual mass flywheel since it hasn't been around long enough, but I did have one once before on a 95 f-250 diesel. It was the biggest PIA that you could imagine. It would wear out and lose balance. Once the springs had slop in them and it lost balance the motor wouold shake violently from being ouot of balance. I sure hope this is not the case with these. I had to put 2 of them in my truck by the time I totalled it with 97,000 mile son it.



I have since replaced another one for a guy that came in my buddies shop with the truck making a horrible noiose and having clutch issues. The guy described it as having problems disengaging the clutch and shaking badly. I told them of my experiences with them on the ford's and when we tore it down some of the springs had totallty broken and one had worked it's way out of the flywheel. Talk about a mess. Very expensive repair bill.

 

[Signal73]

SBC and Blumenthals are million dollar co's. Tim probably isnt a millionare. Why would you guys want to abuse some po mans truck when you could buy one and do your own R+D and keep it as long as you like? Tim, hope your gettin somethin other then a new clutch out of this. .

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

SBC and Blumenthals are million dollar co's. Tim probably isnt a millionare. Why would you guys want to abuse some po mans truck when you could buy one and do your own R+D and keep it as long as you like? Tim, hope your gettin somethin other then a new clutch out of this. .

YUP - you put into words what I was thinking...



Only possible benefit *I* can see, is an independent users final report on results - and in this case...

 

[67guzzler]

SBC and Blumenthals are million dollar co's. Tim probably isnt a millionare. Why would you guys want to abuse some po mans truck when you could buy one and do your own R+D and keep it as long as you like? Tim, hope your gettin somethin other then a new clutch out of this. .

Double - Ditto. I wanted to know what the upside for Tim was.

 

[Tim]

You guys can do whatever you want with your money, and I'll do whatever I want with mine.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Double - Ditto. I wanted to know what the upside for Tim was.

Well, the "upside" in cases like this are USUALLY a free product, and aggressive product support to keep the "lab rat" happy and positive (advertising, PR) - not a bad thing in most cases, unless the product is REAL bad, and that really isn't likely in this case. It is also a plus, if the one used for the test has reason to distrust the OEM part the test is replacing, and as reluctant as Tim might be to admit it, I suspect he is less than enthusiastic about his flywheel/clutch/transmission as delivered from DC - thus his willingness to vollunteer for this test...

 

[Tim]

Well, that's certainly too bad. You're going to install a clutch that will hold 500 or more hp, but you're too paranoid to discuss power mods that will actually "test" the capabilities of your new clutch. Your transmission warranty would be voided anyway, so what's there to be worried about? If you crunch the transmission, SBC will get you a new one for a replacement anyway, right?



I just don't understand why they'd pick you, who won't talk about any power upgrades.



If you don't talk about your engine mods, you can't validate the capabilities and reliability of your new clutch/trans setup.

Yes I can. I'm going to be sled-pulling with my truck. That is the main reason I want an upgraded clutch... . not for power mods.

 

[Tim]

I suspect he is less than enthusiastic about his flywheel/clutch/transmission as delivered from DC - thus his willingness to vollunteer for this test...

Not true. It just has design limitations. You really shouldn't be pulling a 40,000 lb sled with a dual mass flywheel designed for ~20,000 lb gcwr. You can't expect it to hold up.



I'm willing to volunteer for the test for the good of all of us with G-56 transmissions, to see what is truely inside, and end the G-56 contraversy.

 

[South Bend Clutch]

SBC and Blumenthals are million dollar co's. Tim probably isnt a millionare. Why would you guys want to abuse some po mans truck when you could buy one and do your own R+D and keep it as long as you like? Tim, hope your gettin somethin other then a new clutch out of this. .

The only thing I can say to this comment is this...



I build clutches for all makes and models. Agricultural, semi, industrial, passenger/race cars and all size trucks. If I had to buy a vehicle or machine for every application to see if improvements can be made to help support torque inhancements... well lets just say, I would need a much bigger buiding then I have now. :-laf



I am very confused on the negative support.



Tim, keep your head up, your truck is in good hands.



Peter

 

[Tim]

I am very confused on the negative support.

Don't be. Some people here just don't like me, and the G-56 transmission is a matter of much contraversy.

 

[AlexWV]

Well here is some support. I'll be following the progress with interest. Good job to be the test subject. Somebody has to do it.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Not true. It just has design limitations. You really shouldn't be pulling a 40,000 lb sled with a dual mass flywheel designed for ~20,000 lb gcwr. You can't expect it to hold up.



I'm willing to volunteer for the test for the good of all of us with G-56 transmissions, to see what is truely inside, and end the G-56 contraversy.

UMMMm - and exactly what do you suppose the lower level Dodge sled pullers were using with excellent success BEFORE the DMF and G56 hit the scene? How many of then felt the need for radical flywheel/clutch/transmission upgrades?



Keep in mind, this is offered as a DISCUSSION, not criticism or argument...

 

[klenger]

I think you G56 bashers need to back off a bit. Tim tried to buy an NV5600 truck, but it was not available anymore, so he got one with a G56. Tim got over it, so should you guys. Tim and Peter are attempting to do some good for CTD owners, and all you guys want to do is bash them for a decision that DC made. Yea, we all (at least most of us) like the NV5600 better than the G56, but life goes on...

... get over it!!! :-{}



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Edited excessive font size.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[67guzzler]

G56 bashing? Is that what's happening? As a G56 owner with no major problems other than driveline slack I just want to know what the point is. I still haven't heard a reasonable explanation for why I'd like to drop the dough to go with the SMF. A 1995 Ford F250 with a DMF sucked -- had 3 of them by 97k miles. That's bad. But does that mean the G56 with the DMF will suck? A bunch of 70's Oldsmobile 350 V-8 diesels sucked. Does that mean all diesels suck? I'm just not that smart to make any assumptions. Hey -- I just learned about DMF's this year.



Now if someone says that the driveline slack is caused by the springs in the DMF that's another story and maybe motivation to try a SMF. But I haven't heard that yet and I ain't gonna drop a load of dough in the hopes it will fix my problem. After initally 100% blaming the G56, I'm not sure if it's the culpret at all. It could be but I don't know. Note that Tim clearly said he doesn't have this slack problem and has gone on to say that he "doesn't know what I'm talking about. "



So I'm not going to know if moving to a SMF is going to fix the slack anyway even if he likes his. #@$%!



Hey -- I'm just trying to get some honest answers about what the point is other than "historically DMF's have sucked. " I don't read that anyone has seriously said the G56 sucks -- I have read some teasing of Tim but I haven't felt it was really G56 bashing -- Plastic gears comments included :-laf :-laf :-laf

Not true. It just has design limitations. You really shouldn't be pulling a 40,000 lb sled with a dual mass flywheel designed for ~20,000 lb gcwr. You can't expect it to hold up.

How do you know? I think that it would be a BIGGER service to us G56 owners for you to go and pull 40,000 pounds with a stock G56 and see if it holds up vs. bailing on the stock clutch and flywheel right out of the chute. I'd like to know if it can handle it. If it does, then the DMF debate can get cooled a little. This just adds fuel to the fire.

 

[MABurns]

After initally 100% blaming the G56, I'm not sure if it's the culpret at all. It could be but I don't know. Note that Tim clearly said he doesn't have this slack problem and has gone on to say that he "doesn't know what I'm talking about. "



So I'm not going to know if moving to a SMF is going to fix the slack anyway even if he likes his. #@$%!

Could you perhaps explain in words what you mean by "slack"?



Are you talking about when you let of the fuel or what.

 

[67guzzler]

Could you perhaps explain in words what you mean by "slack"?



Are you talking about when you let of the fuel or what.

Yes -- basically a clunk when you let off the throttle to slow down or while shifting. I can avoid it by being gentle on the throttle as I prepare to engage the clutch and float the throttle slightly while the shift is actually being made.

 

[lmills]

I still haven't heard a reasonable explanation for why I'd like to drop the dough to go with the SMF. A 1995 Ford F250 with a DMF sucked -- had 3 of them by 97k miles. That's bad. But does that mean the G56 with the DMF will suck? A bunch of 70's Oldsmobile 350 V-8 diesels sucked. Does that mean all diesels suck? I'm just not that smart to make any assumptions. Hey -- I just learned about DMF's this year.

That would be exactly what I said. Just because I had horrible luck with my 95, doesn't mean they haven't learned a bit since then. Maybe ford was smarter, they quit using them and went to the solid flywheels. Hopefully Dodge has a better design than the ford did.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

LOOK, you guys WITH the G-56 are WAY too sensitive - it's been well established that TO DATE, there are NO known G-56 failures - and other scattered issues don't seem any more serious than similar NV-5600 issues.



Naturally, some of us with older trucks - some who may well be considering a new truck - are understandably curious and concerned about the newer transmission before plunking down seriou $$$ on buying one!



But THAT doesn't equate to "G-56 bashing" by any stretch - so YOU GUYS



GET OVER IT!







Now, if you want to see REAL G-56 bashing. it looks like THIS:



All G-56's are JUNK!

Only an idiot would spend $40K for a G-56 equipped truck.

G-56's are nothing but a disaster waiting to happen!





There, see the difference?



I'm curious, and will continue to ask questions and watch for G-56 info as it surfaces - and applaud Tim and Peter for their development work on G-56 upgrades - but am even MORE interested in the developing track record of STOCK setups in various normal truck uses.



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Edited font size.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[hasselbach]

My question is, has there been any problems so far associated with the DMF? If not, why not see where is fails, or if it even does that?



The DMF has a lot of benefits to offer, especially behind a pulsey 6 cylinder. I wouldn't be surprised to see problems with the trans once that DMF is removed. Otherwise, why would dodge have spent the extra money to in fact install the DMF if it didn't have to.