G-56 guys, CLUTCH UPGRADE!! No more DMF!

[RJOL]

One thing that is very important to all with the G56 trans... When shutting down the truck, push in on the clutch pedal and hold it down until the truck is shut down. This unloads the DMF and relieves it from the violent end spikes when engine is shutting off.



Peter

I usually do this but it's a good point, and I will be extra careful while shutting down...

 

[formula]

Yeah, but wouldn't the linear drag on the transmission side assist smoothing out the non linear spikes from the engine? Almost like a flywheel effect?

This "flywheel effect" (on the transmission side) is precisely what you want to AVOID. There are no constant (linear) forces at play here.



Sean

 

[67guzzler]

Don't look but the fun police have served notice. No sarcasm allowed. No joking about the dead serious dissatisfaction of the state of affairs regarding the G56. No blowing off steam regarding getting shafted by DiamlerChrysler by teasing about the nature of the G56. The G56's feelings were hurt I guess... .

 

[Subby]

JGann,

There you go again. Sarcasm, sarcasm, sarcasm. Naughty, naughty! It's interesting that I just got my notification in the mail to reup my subscription and on the same day I am witnessing all kinds of editing where there really shouldn't be. Funny how in all walks of life you have people who can't just turn the channel if they don't like how something is. Personally, I like the banter. Makes it fun and interesting. JGann, lets start up our own site where it's mandatory to bicker before you can post. Just about every post on this thread had pertinent info and the ones that didn't-hold on to your hats-I simply arrowed down past them. Most anal site ever. (Comic Book Guy-Simpsons)

 

[klenger]

Do you guys have any idea how much work I did not get done today because I was trying to keep up with this thread? :-laf

 

[67guzzler]

I think dynamic threads like this are helpful and informative. They get the ideas across and are entertaining. I'm sick of a society that is so thin-skinned that it can't laugh at itself. I constantly laugh at people picking on my poor G56. Talk about a chilling effect. I don't even know what the offending verbiage was. What are the standards? Who decides? Is there a committee? Were there meetings? Was there a vote? Is there an appeal process?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

There is obviously a lot of interest in this topic.

We are fortunate that Peter is looking into the trans, flywheel, and clutch situations for us so soon after production began.

 

[Tim]

I think the amount of moderation done to this post is downright disgusting. If you're going to destroy all free thought and discussion, in the future, do me a favor, moderators. If you feel the need to edit this many posts, just delete the entire thing. As a paying member of TDR, I don't appreciate logging on to read my post to find that most of it is missing before I can even read it.



There are few things that I can't stand about forums, and moderation is one of them. I'd rather have absolutely none than what I see above.



Just delete this crap and I'll make another post and we can start over. There is absolutely no need to moderate a post to this point.



Further, I read a few of the quotes of the missing posts. Most don't appear to be arguementative. God forbid we actually have a discussion here... ...



I think an apology is due, in my PM box, for what was done to the post that I started.

 

[RKerner]

This "flywheel effect" (on the transmission side) is precisely what you want to AVOID. There are no constant (linear) forces at play here.



Sean

first DMF link



Luk Deutschland Explanation and pix



In general, the torque spike drives the design of the drivetrain; the clutch, trans, driveshaft, crankshaft,etc. The gear tooth root geometry, mainshaft/countershaft minor diameters and such must withstand torque magnitudes up to almost twice the rated output of the engine. Building in compliance is a way to reduce the bulk and cost of a drivetrain or to reduce warranty in a problem 'situation'. Compliance in the drivetrain softens the feedback of the spikes in either direction but usually from the engine outward. Though there may be some NVH positives, (less transmission noise at idle) the DMF helps to clip the torque spikes (torque pulses from the peak of each power stroke) in a well defined frequency range (rpm). The low rpm precaution/issue is probably due to the DMF having a mode below idle speed but during shutdown and startup.



It is apparent that if you alter the torque spikes (BOMB the engine) you will expose the DMF to conditions it was not designed for. With the built-in torque limiter, the stock system may not pull a sled successfully but it would be a good learning exercise to find the design limit.



The dissection of the transmission will determine its power potential as compared to the NV5600. That will be a positive out of the experiment. Or, it may prematurely terminate the study if found to be inferior... .

 

[formula]

I was referring to the conditions at shutdown. Far different from normal operating conditions.



Sean

 

[scotty1]

I think dynamic threads like this are helpful and informative. They get the ideas across and are entertaining. I'm sick of a society that is so thin-skinned that it can't laugh at itself. I constantly laugh at people picking on my poor G56. Talk about a chilling effect. I don't even know what the offending verbiage was. What are the standards? Who decides? Is there a committee? Were there meetings? Was there a vote? Is there an appeal process?

After reading through the thread I found that a few folks had an opinion well formed about the guy that was involved with this test for 'other' reasons. I am not aware of what happened and don't care.



I do want to know how this pans out as my neighbor has a G56. Speculation, preconceived ideas and misinformation is the stuff I try to steer away from. When I do not have the knowledge and experience like some people have, like Peter; I wait for him to post factual feedback on a totally new horizon with these trucks. Some of us say look past the stuff you don't want to read... well I guess that applies to all of us... whether or not its about humor, belittling, babble, facts or topics that are not of interest to us. Scroll on.



Scotty

 

[JStieger]

After reading through the thread I found that a few folks had an opinion well formed about the guy that was involved with this test for 'other' reasons. I am not aware of what happened and don't care.

I agree and aside from the above, if I lived near SBC, had a G56, and could afford to be without my truck for a period of time, I would have jumped on SBC's offer. There's a few guys at work with the new trucks that want to start BOMBING their trucks, but the clutch questionability is the road block and they didn't want to be stuck out in the sticks with a broken clutch with their horse trailers etc. So they are anxiously awaiting to see how this test pans out.



So hats off to Tim (and Peter et al. ) for doing this. Whatever inconvenience this may cause him will probably be "payed it forward" hundreds times over in terms of less PITA and $'s wasted to other members.



That being said, it still would be interesting if someone with deep pockets just went ahead and BOMBed the truck with a stock clutch and find out where the breaking point truly is!



Just my $0. 02

 

[Tim]

That being said, it still would be interesting if someone with deep pockets just went ahead and BOMBed the truck with a stock clutch and find out where the breaking point truly is!

There is already a guy here with a TST stacked with Ramifier on a stock clutch G-56 truck.

 

[AlexWV]

I have some mods and a stock clutch G56. I guess it has to be a stock clutch since there are no other clutches. :-laf



You know what occurred to me the other day? Nobody blinks an eye when people talk about all the crap they have to do to their automatics. It is standard operational procedure - if you intend to increase the power of your truck, you pretty much have to take care of the auto.



But mention maybe, just maybe, beefing up the G56 and all heck breaks lose. :-laf :-laf :-laf



Anyway... carry on, Tim. Good job.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have some mods and a stock clutch G56. I guess it has to be a stock clutch since there are no other clutches. :-laf



You know what occurred to me the other day? Nobody blinks an eye when people talk about all the crap they have to do to their automatics. It is standard operational procedure - if you intend to increase the power of your truck, you pretty much have to take care of the auto.



But mention maybe, just maybe, beefing up the G56 and all heck breaks lose. :-laf :-laf :-laf



Anyway... carry on, Tim. Good job.

Wait a minute, let's sorta level the playing field a bit!



Guys actually PLANNING ahead for heavy-duty use with their truck frequently buy the manual transmission, fully REALIZING the automatics won't hold up well to that use - and guys who feel they MUST have the automatic also go into the game KNOWING transmission upgrades will be their next stop, if they plan any significant bombing!



As it now stands, *IF* the G-56 displays tendencies for scattered problems and early expen$ive failures, guys WANTING a heavy duty transmission *might* be as well off to just get the more convenient automatic, since the upgrade expense could potentially well be much the same for both!



It is the UNKNOWN factor created by the new G-56 that causes the issues covered here - WILL it hold up to heavy duty use, or even moderate power upgrades - as did the NV-5600 - or is anything other than moderate loads and cautious driving going to FORCE an expensive upgrade?



As an example, I increased the power of my 5th wheel towing '02 truck by 50%, then DROVE it for about 2 years and 25,000 miles on the STOCK drivetrain, then a fully anticipated slipping clutch caused me to spend about $600 for a beefed up clutch setup - and all has been well since.



The BIG question is, will the G-56 allow that same level of engine upgrade, treatment and use, and still keep clutch upgrade costs anywhere NEAR the same level, for the guys who BOUGHT them for "heavy duty" use?



Owners, and prospective owners really need to know *2 things*



1. WHAT can they reliably expect in trouble-free operation from a stock, or moderately modded truck with a pure STOCK G-56 setup - and if THAT answer comes up short:



2. What alternative upgrade will be economically available to cover what DC failed to provide?



The subject of this thread will hopefully cover #2 - but the answer to #1 might take a bit longer to determine.



And for my money, a "properly" designed and operated STOCK OEM setup, including engine, working within manufacturers load and maintenance specs, SHOULD deliver well over 100,000 miles without attention to transmission or clutch.



Start bombing, and all bets are off...

 

[67guzzler]

Yea! What Gary said!

 

[AlexWV]

And for my money, a "properly" designed and operated STOCK OEM setup, including engine, working within manufacturers load and maintenance specs, SHOULD deliver well over 100,000 miles without attention to transmission or clutch.

Exactly right. Who said it wouldn't? Oh wait... everybody says that. Mainly due to the plastic gears which is the only real piece of data that we know fo sho. :-laf

 

[Tim]

Your points are the entire idea they're keeping my truck for three weeks. They are going to find out what this G-56 is capable of before proceeding with a clutch upgrade.



I personally feel that any truck that is going to be BOMBed should have the clutch upgraded first, followed by gauges, and then it can be modified.

 

[Signal73]

they're keeping my truck for three weeks. They are going to find out what this G-56 is capable of before proceeding with a clutch upgrade

Translation= beat the **** out of it :-laf

 

[KBertetto]

I'm behind Tim and South Bend 110% on this R&D project. Sooner or later when I need (want) a new pickup it will most likely have a G-56. It will be fantastic to go in knowing what these guys are about to find out. I commend both for attempting to better the CTD community.



Bert