G-56 issue from a Dealer side

[FATCAT]

Riddle me this ...

Tommygun or Rick (or anyone who has design and build knowledge):



Why ... since Dodge went out and installed a Best-in-Industry engine ... did they not go with a Best-in-Industry transmission? I know I sound like a broken-record sometimes, but WHY DO THEY NOT partner up with Eaton for their 6 and/or 7 speed trannys? These are top industry transmissions ... wouldn't it make sense to mate a top engine company with a top transmission/driveline company?



The truck and driveline (4X4) can be made to work with the Eaton (or better yet a mini-roadranger setup).



Would anyone here be willing to pay a few thousand more for their truck if you were looking down at the shifter knob and seeing a 6/7-speed Eaton symbol? (or for that matter knowing you have a Allison 2200 or better modle).



One would have to assume that with this type of setup you would OWN the pickup-truck market.



(And while were at it ... order Jacob to design a multi-stage Engine brake for the ISB ... as an option of course).

 

[MABurns]

I think I'll have to give my 04 305/555 another hug tonight.

Good idea, when I am underneath her this afternoon changeing the oil I will give the old girl a hug too. :-laf

 

[Tomeygun]

Tommygun or Rick (or anyone who has design and build knowledge):



Why ... since Dodge went out and installed a Best-in-Industry engine ... did they not go with a Best-in-Industry transmission? I know I sound like a broken-record sometimes, but WHY DO THEY NOT partner up with Eaton for their 6 and/or 7 speed trannys? These are top industry transmissions ... wouldn't it make sense to mate a top engine company with a top transmission/driveline company?

The truck and driveline (4X4) can be made to work with the Eaton (or better yet a mini-roadranger setup).

Would anyone here be willing to pay a few thousand more for their truck if you were looking down at the shifter knob and seeing a 6/7-speed Eaton symbol? (or for that matter knowing you have a Allison 2200 or better modle).

One would have to assume that with this type of setup you would OWN the pickup-truck market.

(And while were at it ... order Jacob to design a multi-stage Engine brake for the ISB ... as an option of course).

It all comes down to money... for example, where is the magic mark that you would stop buying trucks that had this expensive stuff? 50k,60k,70k??



Dodge knows they dont have to spend big money on the eaton, etc, and we will still by the trucks. So why go there and spend at that money when only a few people (TDR folk) will appriciate the expensive components



I bet we would have lost Cummins, BUT this cult following kept them around



With an unlimited budget, you are right, we could OWN the pickup market, But at what cost? Maybe pricing the truck so far out of reach for the average 2500/2500 buyer??

 

[Tim]

Some pickups reach $50k already. There is no truck that's out of reach for their buyers. We want to pull our heavy trailers in style and will do whatever is necessary to make sure we have the best tool for the job.



It's not about $$$$, and if I could buy a semi shoehorned into a pickup truck and it cost $70k, I'd be all over it. I don't want to drive a medium duty truck, but if I could have the components in a pickup, I'd pay the cost, no matter what!!

 

[Pit Bull]

Geez Tim:



Sorry for being so blunt, but you sound like a spolied, whining, crybaby brat! Suck it up and get over it man! Sometimes life deals you a bad hand and you just have to live with it. No one (not Tom, not Lou Fusz, not D/C) is doing this to you INTENTIONALLY!! It is just a bad situation that you will have to learn to deal with. I would remind you that no one (not Tom, not Lou Fusz, not D/C) makes a dime until you take delivery of your truck, so why would anyone (Tom, Fusz, D/C) do anything except to expedite delivery if it was at all possible? Just keep in mind that at times s**t happens and you have to learn to deal with it. How we (you) handle adversity demonstrates your character (or lack of it!).



Again, I apologize for the bluntness, but your whining is just too much to hear from an (apparently) grown man!



Mike

Mike, I'm an old guy and I've purchased more vehicles then my wife likes to admit. I don't think Tim is out of line and he has every right to be ******. Mike you might be use to dealing with DC, and that has conditioned you to expect poor performance. I find DC unique in their ability to build a vehicle that has a lot of problems and now they are having a hard time even delivering. When Toyota starts selling HD diesel 3/4 and 1 ton trucks DC will either get on the ball or they will go out of the truck business. JMHO and I've owned a couple of CTD trucks.

 

[FATCAT]

It all comes down to money... for example, where is the magic mark that you would stop buying trucks that had this expensive stuff? 50k,60k,70k??



Dodge knows they dont have to spend big money on the eaton, etc, and we will still by the trucks. So why go there and spend at that money when only a few people (TDR folk) will appriciate the expensive components



I bet we would have lost Cummins, BUT this cult following kept them around



With an unlimited budget, you are right, we could OWN the pickup market, But at what cost? Maybe pricing the truck so far out of reach for the average 2500/2500 buyer??

How much more do you think an Eaton 6/7 transmission is over the NV5600? Or how much more is the Allison 2300/2500 over the 48RE? Don't forget, an order from one of the major manufactures would surely get a discount on quantity. Not to mention the reduced amount of "warranty" work DC would have to do.



It would be nowhere near 70k for a top of the line SLT Larime 3500.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Weight is also an issue. Already the 2500s are 1000 lb heavier than the second gen. My 97 had shipping weight 6025. My 2004 has 7098. GVW is only up 200 lb, so I have lost 800 lb legal carrying capacity. Now, if you put HD 7 speed and other components, and others have asked for more frame, well watch the unloaded weight hit or exceed 8000 lb. Even a dually would have not much more weight capacity than the old 97 2500 did. If you up the capacity, you get into the federal medium duty area, bigger tires, then bigger brakes, etc. More weight. . . if you cram in enough medium duty stuff, you have a medium duty truck. Maybe what you are really asking Dodge to do is build 4500 and 5500 Rams for us

 

[Tim]

Or how much more is the Allison 2300/2500 over the 48RE?

GM owns Allison. They're never going to sell their pride and joy to DC so that they can compete with them, it just wouldn't be a good idea.



As to everyone that doesn't think I have a right to be ******, if you can't put yourself in my shoes, just don't say anything at all. There is something to be said about a large corporation that will not take your money, and this is exactly the place to say it. If you don't like me saying it, click on another post, because if there's a G-56 post around here, you can bet I'm going to be part of it.



I've recieved numerous PMs from members thanking me for saying what they won't say. They're all afraid if they vent their frustration here on the board that y'all are going to come down on them like you did to me. That is sad. Instead of concentrating on the issue at hand, y'all just want to say you're tired of my whining. I don't see anyone telling people with worn out U joints to quit their whining, or dripping injectors, launch shudder, rearend noises, etc.

 

[macdaddy]

GM owns Allison. They're never going to sell their pride and joy to DC so that they can compete with them, it just wouldn't be a good idea.



As to everyone that doesn't think I have a right to be ******, if you can't put yourself in my shoes, just don't say anything at all. There is something to be said about a large corporation that will not take your money, and this is exactly the place to say it. If you don't like me saying it, click on another post, because if there's a G-56 post around here, you can bet I'm going to be part of it.



I've recieved numerous PMs from members thanking me for saying what they won't say. They're all afraid if they vent their frustration here on the board that y'all are going to come down on them like you did to me. That is sad. Instead of concentrating on the issue at hand, y'all just want to say you're tired of my whining. I don't see anyone telling people with worn out U joints to quit their whining, or dripping injectors, launch shudder, rearend noises, etc.

Tim

I'm sure you have heard the phrase "don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes". or something like that, I believe in credit where credit is due. You've really mellowed out. I put myself in your shoe's and come to realize had I not have found my 05 when I did I would have missed our annual Thanksgiving run last year which would have been a real bummer for the whole family. I had ordered two wht SLT's with different color interiors and they were just not going to make it in on time. So I understand you disappointment when you didn't get to take your planned vacation.



Good luck to ya



Mac

 

[dhill]

Ok, evev though Tim has mellowed out some, someone has to take the heat off “old Tim” , so I’m putting on the flame suit.

First off it seems like most of the post that are bashing the G-56 are coming from guys that have not even driven one. Second, if you go back in time in the forums you’ll see the same thing before many times, just change the name, Getrag … no problems there huh? How about the NV4500 no problems there either, once you replace the main shaft and find where 5th gear went. NV5600 best trany Dodge ever put in the pick up, as long as you have the large input shaft and don’t mind double clutching. 47RE, been there done that. About half of the 168000 miles were with a TST fuel plate and nothing done in the transmission. Was that a good transmission? In my truck it was, but I know guys that didn’t get 70000 miles out of them. Why so I have a G-56 instead of the auto? Well I wanted the packbrake.

It doesn’t look like DC has ever done their homework before releasing a manual transmission for the Dodge PU. They probably never will. I’m sure my truck will end up the repair shop one of these days, if for no other reason than a clutch from south bend or luk.

I drove a truck with the NV5600 and decided to wait to get the new transmission

About the OD being a . 79, well empty it pulls very nicely from about 45 mph to 80 mph, in 6th, that’s when I backed out, it was still pulling pretty good. The mileage on the second tank was 17. 7 doing a hand calc. Not to bad since more than half of that was in town.

If Dodge takes my truck and says the’re going to replace theG-56 with a NV5600 because of the problems, then I’ll sell it and get an auto, packbrake or not.

If you want to bad-mouth the G-56, go find one, drive it with an open mind ( if that’s possible) and then slam it. Until then you comments really don’t mean much.



Dave

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

I see he's still smacking that beehive

Wow, there for a minute we got off on a substantive, but pragmatically improbable, idea of coupling a solid big name transmission with the solid big name Cummins, e. g. Eaton. Mind you, there was nothing wrong with the NV5600, but I guess if it aint broke you got to fix it. But we all know it was the Big C in the little d that has sold over a million CTDs, selah. Perhaps there is a lesson here.



Tim, there is nothing wrong with being upset over your situation. It what you do and say when you are upset that has folks expressing their dissatisfaction with your posts. As I posted before, it was your personal attach on another member that was objected to. That individual could have remained nameless or deal with him off-line. As I noted before, the other threads about problems, i. e. "worn out U joints to quit their whining, or dripping injectors, launch shudder, rearend noises, etc. ", didn't start out as a vendette against another member, albeit, sometimes things could get pretty heated up :-laf . Lastly, you didn't take your planned vacation, because, you were not bright enough to arrange alternate transportation even though folks offered feasible suggestions.

I've recieved numerous PMs from members thanking me for saying what they won't say.

Sounds like this individual could be just another whiner. :-laf . Is it possible to PM ones self?



Although I've had three CTDs since 97, I didn't join TDR until 2003 after I had ordered my 04. After I ordered the truck, it became apparent that DC was coming out with the "600" with several modifications to the "555" which didn't include the heinous EGR as reported by TDR magazine writers (I purposely was buying a pre-EGR truck). No one would here, or at the dealership would say what the mods were - I was ticked. I expressed my opinion and recieved a similar come uppence from TDR members. I soon learned to be more circumspect about HOW I expressed my opinion in my posts. In retrospect I realize that I was very fortunate to have landed a 555 instead of a later model.



Summarily, folks are not objecting to you posting or expressing your opinion, only apparently you also are learning a lesson in TDR civility which makes this diesel site better than other similar sites.

 

[hasselbach]

Good Shift

If you don't like me saying it... .

Its that we don't mind you saying it... Its that you continue to cry and moan and snibble. TIM, why don't you just go and get either a GM or a FORD, with a stick, and be done with it? My god, you must leave a very simple life if this is the most traumatic issue to deal with. Yep, you ordered a truck and the manufacturer had a problem with the transmission. Okay, that's life, $tuff happens. . So assess your options. Either buy used if you want dodge, or buy a different manufacturer. Pretty easy in my opinion.



My buddy that owns a few dodge dealerships told me yesterday that it looks like the problem is in the G56, not the flywheel, but DC is very closed lip about just what exactly the issue is. And they are moving all the G56's off the lot to a storage facility for the time being. . I bet these will sell at a good discount when they do figure out how to repair. He's got over a dozen buyers that ordered the trucks that can't delivery. so he's putting them in either autos, or chevys, or telling them they have to wait it out. Life goes on.

On a side note, I took my NV5600 out on the trail yesterday in Mohave desert. . wow, these are really sweet off road. The first gear is perfect for crawling up and down hills. .

 

[klenger]

In defence of Tim, the only reason this thread continues is because of all the post flaming Tim AFTER her mellowed out. His comments since then have only been in defence of the critisims toward him. Tim has accepted the situlation; now it's time for us to accept Tim.

 

[Jengle]

And if you really want your comments to count, send them to DC and post here what you get back. Until then, you're just preaching to the choir. And yes, I have done that. Waiting on a response. Another note, the dealer can't help you there, since they get fed the same line of BS from DC. Maybe, just maybe, if enough of us send our comments to DC, we might see some results.

 

[plongson]

Not to change the subject, but, is there a mix of NV5600's and G56's in the 05'?? My son (As you may recall from another post here) was looking for a DCTD and found EXACTALLY what he wanted (Probably a miracle) on his first call to Dave Smith in Kellogg. It has the six gear that he wanted. He is going with it regardless whether it is a "NV" or a "G". If there is a mix, I hope it has the NV, just because it is tride and true. I have a NV4500 in my 99' and would like to make the switch but $4500 is a lot of cash no matter how you slice it. On top of that, the Ol' 5 gear has never let me down (yet).



Tomeygun: Thanks for your offer, we would have called you but this thing came together real fast. Thanks again...



Paul...

 

[macdaddy]

Beginning Jan 05 DC started placing the G56. Easy way to tell, if reverse is up and to the right she's got a NV,down and to the left and she's a G.



Mac

 

[Tim]

Lastly, you didn't take your planned vacation, because, you were not bright enough to arrange alternate transportation even though folks offered feasible suggestions.

I take offense to this statement. Nobody offered a safe solution. I explored getting a friend to pull my trailer and I tried talking tommygun into loaning me a used truck (and I told him I didn't give a **** what it was, I told him I didn't care if it was a 2wd Chevy 3/4 ton, anything that could be hooked to a trailer safely, and I'd take it and bring it back). He said no. The other option was to put my truck inside a U haul. Not only will it not fit, but even if it would that is not safe as there is no way to tie it down. Nobody offered a logical solution to my problem and I didn't get to go. Either way that subject has nothing to do with my truck, which is still not here and I've still not heard a word from DC as to why. I can't believe over the course of two weeks nobody can come up with an answer. I got the internal memos from Chrysler now though, I'm going to call their upper level management because they're foolish enough to have the number on their memo which leaked to the public. Once I get a hold of them I bet I'll get some answers.

Summarily, folks are not objecting to you posting or expressing your opinion, only apparently you also are learning a lesson in TDR civility which makes this diesel site better than other similar sites.

That is total hogwash. Because of the way I stated my opinions at first, they're basically telling me that I'm whining and that I have no right to say what I've been saying. Anyone who has said that is wrong in my opinion.



All of you suggesting I buy something else, get over it, I'm not doing it unless I have no other options. The Chevy/GMC are ugly as hell and have independant front suspension which I'm not interested in owning, not to mention their 6 speeds have problems, too, and they don't make a 6 speed truck with leather. The Ford has engine problems. Both are more expensive than Dodge as well and don't offer what I want... . sorry, but the Dodge is the truck I want and I'm waiting until mine gets here.



Anyone else that has a problem with me I suggest you take it to PM. Chances are most of you are shooting off at the mouth without even fully understanding the situation. There are a few issues I've left out of the discussions that make my situation even worse than it is already.

 

[Tim]

Its that we don't mind you saying it... Its that you continue to cry and moan and snibble. TIM, why don't you just go and get either a GM or a FORD, with a stick, and be done with it? My god, you must leave a very simple life if this is the most traumatic issue to deal with. Yep, you ordered a truck and the manufacturer had a problem with the transmission. Okay, that's life, $tuff happens. . So assess your options. Either buy used if you want dodge, or buy a different manufacturer. Pretty easy in my opinion.

Once again, I already have the money so I can have any truck I want. I don't WANT a Ford or Chevy, I'm not interested in owning them and thus I'm going to wait until the truck I want gets here.

 

[macdaddy]

Fellas Fellas

Would everybody quit baiting Tim already!!!!!!!!!!!!!. :-{}



Tim easy does it there cowboy you're amongst fellow Dodge dudes here, or at least future Dodge dudes.



Mac

 

[KBennett]

Can you imagine what would have happened if Tim got his truck and then it failed on his vacation :{



Tim, I too am sorry if you are having problems but the way you are handling it is completely childish. I am reading all these different threads this morning and you are cluttering them up with your whining. Any opportunity you get you take a shot at Dodge or Tomeygun.



Moderators please reign this guy in.