G-56 Transmission Torque Girdle

[cerberusiam]

The G56 does not effect the 6. 7 programing/logic, and it is the same as any other program/logic where the HP/TQ is controlled by the computer. Torque Management is just a popular term being thrown around because the auto communicates with the ECM and will change the program/logic because they now have the capability.

Not quite true but close. The G56 directly effects the programming to keep it one piece, irregardless of what the engine is capable of. TQ management really is just fuel management across the power band but it results in managing the TQ to keep it in check. However, the ECU knows when you clutch the truck and controls the TQ applied.



The adaptive programming used in the autos is much more complex and actually learns to apply to your driving style to the trans operation, just like the Ally, TQ shift and the AISIN. All of these units are the same way, under clutched and TQ managed ot make them live.

 

[RVTRKN]

Not per my tech's opinion's on this subject, in fact they thought it was funny that we (TDR) are blogging/arguing/discussing about it, but they have confirmed that the auto does have TM, like all modern automatic transmissions, too include gas applications, to save the transmissions from the higher HP/TQ in the modern engines.

 

[HBarlow]

I chuckle privately every time you post your ordinary misinformed baloney obtained from some so-called "tech" at a dealership as if it is gospel. Very few of those guys own a Cummins-powered Ram and it is even more rare to find a dealership tech who reads. A man who doesn't read is doomed to learn only what he can see with his eyes and feel with his hands when he takes things apart and dealership techs ordinarily replace not rebuild the new automatics which are almost always still under warranty. In summary, they don't usually know much beyond changing parts.

He may think the transmission has those magical properties but the automatic transmissions used in Dodge Rams DO NOT have an internal computer or other device that is capable of recording information and making programmed decisions.

 

[RVTRKN]

In one day, they work on more CTD's than you have owned, so your saying you know more than they do, because you read. Why do you keep injecting yourself into my conversations with insults? Go back to the Navy so you can feel like your incharge, were they have no choice and have to obey your stupidity. :-laf

 

[ENafziger]

Maybe there are different definitions of "torque management".

That being said, I have a G56, and I have a Smarty that allow the torque management setting to be changed.

A setting of "1" is stock TM, which effectively limits low rpm fueling. The settings are progressive up to "4", which allows full fueling without regard to transmission longevity. The transmission can't control this, and in fact doesn't even know that TM has been changed... that is until its internals begin to get rattled and hammered unmercifully.

That being said, it's still unclear what goes on in the fueling/timing tables commanded by Smarty. Within a few months, much of that should come to light!

--Eric

 

[cerberusiam]

He may think the transmission has those magical properties but the automatic transmissions used in Dodge Rams DO NOT have an internal computer or other device that is capable of recording information and making programmed decisions.

Thats correct, the trans is a dumb hunk of metal that contains no internal computing devices. The adpative programs, controls, ECU interface, etc, reside in the TCM\PCM for the 68RFE. With the 48RE the minimal programs reside in the ECU.

Maybe there are different definitions of "torque management".

TQ Management is really fuel managemnt, or limiting, based on throttle position. Its misnamed in operation, not in function. The TQ curves prove that.



Pretty sure what Smarty does is remap the tables used to limit the fueling based on the pertinent parameters.



That concept is totally different from the shift defuel concept. Without shift defueling neither the auto transmissions nor the DMF will survive the hit. Every shift would just firther overload the trans input capability.

 

[RVTRKN]

Without shift defueling neither the auto transmissions nor the DMF will survive the hit. Every shift would just firther overload the trans input capability.

Sure, it defuels every time I lift my foot off of the throttle and engage the clutch.



TM changes shift RPM and engine fueling, and the ECM knows what the auto is doing when it gets the signals back from the transmission module, which does retain memory and has intelligence. There are two computers on an Automatic transmission equiped CTD

 

[HBarlow]

In one day, they work on more CTD's than you have owned, so your saying you know more than they do, because you read. Why do you keep injecting yourself into my conversations with insults? Go back to the Navy so you can feel like your incharge, were they have no choice and have to obey your stupidity. :-laf

What you mistakenly perceive to be your personal conversation is actually an open discussion forum for all TDR members to read and, if they choose, post in.

Someone has to correct the dumb things you write in order to protect newer members from reading and believing incorrect information.

Cerberusiam had already told you you were wrong but you apparently believe if you continue to post in accurate information it will become accurate. Sorry, it doesn't happen. It was wrong when you wrote it the first time and it is still wrong.

The MOPAR 68RRE does not contain a computer and can not send programming information back to the ECM. Have you ever seen a disassembled automatic transmission or an engineering exploded view drawing?

The PCM reads, interprets, and sends information back to the ECM.

 

[HBarlow]

Sure, it defuels every time I lift my foot off of the throttle and engage the clutch.

TM changes shift RPM and engine fueling, and the ECM knows what the auto is doing when it gets the signals back from the transmission module, which does retain memory and has intelligence. There are two computers on an Automatic transmission equiped CTD

So now you are changing your statement. You're trying to weasle-word your original claim about the transmission controlling TM. I think you have now learned you were wrong and are pretending it was the PCM you were talking about.

Yes, there are two computers in the automatic transmission Rams. They are identified as ECM and PCM, neither of which is the 68RFE or in the 68RFE.

 

[RVTRKN]

Your an idiot if you think I'm intimidated by your rude behavior, there is a computer for the 68rfe/Aison, and if you don't like my discussions with other members too bad. I was having a polite conversation until you tried to act like you know it all. Look for the next thread "For HBarlow eyes only".

 

[cerberusiam]

in fact they thought it was funny that we (TDR) are blogging/arguing/discussing about it

What exactly do they find funny? Is it taboo to discuss this?



Really, if they have some pertinent info they would like to share I have a feeling a lot of people would read it. You should invite them over to clear up the our perceptions. A good tech with Dodge specific training in this area would have a LOT of questions to answer.

Sure, it defuels every time I lift my foot off of the throttle and engage the clutch.

Sure it does, but, what if you didn't lift off the throttle when you clutched and shifted?



For the sake of discussion, lets just ignore the fact that that is a horrendously bad idea for the life of the trans and assume it can be speed shifted form gear to gear without lifitng off the throttle.



Say its possible to speed shift the trans in . 5 seconds. At 2400 rpm's thats 20 rev's that will happen with 10 of those being injection events in that 1/2 second. With sampling rates in the millisecond range and 10 injection events to gather data from, is it probable the ECU can sense from its inputs that an event that may require a tweak to the injection event to function as a shift defuel? How about a micro-switch on the clutch to directly tell the ECU a shift is imminent?



Remeber the ECU is constantly calculation load percentages to use in apply fueling tables. Pretty sure an algorithm to defuel slightly when a certain conditon is sensed is not beyond the capabilities.



You are correct, there are 2 computers on an auto truck that work together to accomplish what it does. Does a manual truck have a PCM? Never thought to look when I drove them so don't know the answer to that question.

 

[RVTRKN]

They think it is funny in a good sense, but I doubt they will blog.



The point is, TM on the manual is leap and bounds different than the auto. I know there is some TM with the manual, but its in the form of a set program that also inhibits the HP. Basically its as if the 350HP version didn't exist or invented yet. Every time they increase the HP of coarse the TQ changes but same principal applies to going to less HP/TQ. The point with HBarlow is he stuck his nose where it didn't belong just to harass me. I thought we were having a discussion that was intelligent until he chimed in.



There is no TCM for the manual, so its a mute point.