G56 Clutchless shifts?...

[BurlesonR]

Buddy of mine has an "06 with a G56 (like mine) and say's he's "trained his transmission to shift clutchless"... Now, I've driven "big trucks" with 13 and 18 speed trannys and always have shifted this way, but in a light duty truck thought that it was wrong?... He swears that it shifts smooth and that it's not hurting anything. I tryed it on the way home from the lake yesterday from 3rd to 4th. Got it out of 3rd ok, but got a big grined going into 4th... I was a little nervious and probably didn't time it very well, but I don't think the G56 is designed to be shifted that way. He say's his did the same untill he trainned it to shift right. Say's it took him a few days to get it to be smooth... .



My question is, do any of you shift without using the clutch with your G56? Or do you know of anyone that does? Is it ok to "train" the transmission to shift like this? If possable, what would be the benifits? Less clutch wear? Faster shifts?



Did a search on this and came up with 0...

 

[RVTRKN]

I don't recommend it, there are syncronizers for a reason, the big rigs do not have them. If you miss a gear in a big rig it can be dangerous depending on what your doing. I tried it for a while and stopped, when my trany tech kind of winced when I told him. Your friend will argue it, but who pays the bill when it breaks.

 

[jelag]

When you shift a non-syncronized truck transmission your matching the speed of the turning gears in the transmission and than put it in gear... . Your G56 or NV5600 will shift the same if you take the time to learn the speeds to make this work...

Since a truck transmission (class 8) has the ratios closer together, its sometimes easier to shift this transmission without the clutch and learning these transmissions seem to be easier than our trucks, it still can be mastered... . and these gears are twice the size with usually fewer teeth... .

I don't understand the term "train his transmission" as it's the driver that needs this training...

I've played with this with my trucks, and frankly I'm usually thinking of something else, but when I'm driving one of our larger trucks, my mind seems to be more focused on the road and the truck... and the shifting is easier...

 

[Turbo_Bob]

The owners manual that comes with the truck says to use the clutch pedal, I would use that advice.



Your buddy training his trans to do this clutchless shifting, I suspect this is wearing or grooving in the syncros to do this type of shifting. I bet there is a whole lot of brass floating in the gear fluid. I wonder after all of this would the trans shift normally using a clutch in the proper manner ?

 

[JWadford]

shifting without the clutch is asking for synchro problems, although big truck trannies do have synchros, they are alot harder metal for longer life so it takes the big trannies longer to synchro shaft speeds and so it makes the big trucks just as easy to shift without the clutch, i have seen many people shift a light truck trans to synchro death early without the clutch, long story short, a stock clutch is cheaper than a trans rebuild.

 

[RLHannink]

Low RPM, just moseying, I shift w/o the clutch quite a bit. Slides right in. Higher speeds or technical situations, I use it. seems to be smoother that way. Mine's an NV4500 though if that makes any difference

 

[BurlesonR]

So... Nobody is really big on shifting clutchless...



I'll tell my buddy yal said he was a fool!



I already knew he was a fool because he doesn't belong to TDR... .



Thanks fro the replies!

 

[WStephens]

I have shifted all the manual transmissions I have since then 1978 Land Cruiser, Dodge 1/2 ton, Ford F250 with the ZF5, and this truck with the G56. I have gotten got life out of my clutches and transmissions.

 

[BurlesonR]

Bill, you're say'n you don't use the clutch?

 

[WStephens]

Yes that is what I am saying. You have to learn to match the speed with the engine speed. You can't train the transmission the truck trains you.

My Land Cruiser transmission had 100K on it and with the original clutch and the transmission never needed any attention other than changing the oil. Did not keep the first Dodge 1/2 ton any longer than necessary, and the 90 F250 ZF5 had and issue with synthetic oil but it lasted almost 200K and the truck I now have has over 50K and do not have any transmission issues. But I don't like the dual mass flywheel but so far is more annoying than anything. But is much better than the 2 the F250 had the first of which went bad and was upgraded by Ford to a 92 version with a clutch at 90K.

 

[mwilson]

In this neck of the woods there are two classifications of operators**



*Drivers*



*Steerers*



*Drivers are in tune with the vehicle that they operate, they can shift for years without clutching and not hurt a thing. They also slow down for rough roads, downshift/slow down in advance of situations to save brakes and tires, etc. They also check oil, observe strange noises and actually hear a part beginning to fail and act on it before total meltdown occurs.



*Steerers do only that, steer. The rest of it they are oblivious to. They should never try shifting without a clutch and would be far better off owning an automatic that they can abuse instead. Give them a high powered stereo to help ignore all of the noises and they are happy, repair shops get richer as a result.



So figure out what catagory you fit into and act accordingly. :-laf:-laf

 

[roadking]

Yes that is what I am saying. You have to learn to match the speed with the engine speed. You can’t train the transmission the truck trains you.

My Land Cruiser transmission had 100K on it and with the original clutch and the transmission never needed any attention other than changing the oil. Did not keep the first Dodge 1/2 ton any longer than necessary, and the 90 F250 ZF5 had and issue with synthetic oil but it lasted almost 200K and the truck I now have has over 50K and do not have any transmission issues. But I don’t like the dual mass flywheel but so far is more annoying than anything. But is much better than the 2 the F250 had the first of which went bad and was upgraded by Ford to a 92 version with a clutch at 90K.

its the defferance between a roadranger and mack 5 speed, our trucks are macks and you have to shift slow 120,000 miles later and my trany is fine just slow to to shift with or without the clutch also after 20+ years driven big trucks the clutch is only there to start off:-{}

 

[BurlesonR]

So we got 4 that say no and 4 that say yes (five if you include my buddy, but he's an idiot :-laf)... .



Thinking of giving it a try... .

 

[WStephens]

its the defferance between a roadranger and mack 5 speed, our trucks are macks and you have to shift slow 120,000 miles later and my trany is fine just slow to to shift with or without the clutch also after 20+ years driven big trucks the clutch is only there to start off:-{}

Well said.



These transmissions are big and heavy are made to get the load moving but not necessarily fast and you have to be patient with them. They do not like to be shifted fast, a lot of the time I ease it out of gear into neutral then tap the throttle to raise the rpms to match my speed and then back into gear like double clutching when down shifting. I have to be paying attention and it is harder when the Wife is with me. I use the transmission and engine to slow down more than I use the brakes.



A few years ago I dislocated my right knee and it was a challenge to drive because the left leg wanted to push the break peddle to the floor.

 

[BurlesonR]

Sure would be nice to hear from someone who is experienced in rebuilding the G56 and big truck gear boxes...



I remember reading in an issue of TDR about the G56 when it 1st came out. They took a G56 to a shop that specialized in big truck trans rebuilds, took it apart and the guys analyzed it. They said it was designed and built a lot like a big tucks and had a lot of good things to say about it... . Don't know if that means you can shift them the same way?...



I'm surprised there isn't more discussion on this subject. Before I made my original post, a search came up with nothing...

 

[JWadford]

i have rebuilt some big truck trannies, eaton road rangers 10-18 speeds, but not a g-56, the big truck trannies have huge gear teeth and a small truck trans has tiny teeth, the clutch breaks torque from the engine to drive train, if there is any torque when pulling out of gear it shears the edge of the teeth and if torque is present when going into gear it galls the edge of the teeth, and the synchros with the clutch engaged or not try to match shaft speeds to ease shifting, it can be done either way, just so much safer for the trans to break torque before taking out of gear or putting into gear, also when this grinding happens the sheared hard metal goes straight into the oil and then helps with premature wear on everything else.

 

[AEdelheit]

I have a G56 and played with it a bit, found the G56 shift's better with the clutch, however I had a 1995 NV4500 and a friend with an 03 Nv5600 that both shifted really smooth without using the clutch so i honestly believe it really depends on the vehicle, driver, load and terrain. The G56 and the NV5600 have SBDD clutch's.

 

[RVTRKN]

Sure would be nice to hear from someone who is experienced in rebuilding the G56 and big truck gear boxes...



I remember reading in an issue of TDR about the G56 when it 1st came out. They took a G56 to a shop that specialized in big truck trans rebuilds, took it apart and the guys analyzed it. They said it was designed and built a lot like a big tucks and had a lot of good things to say about it... . Don't know if that means you can shift them the same way?...



I'm surprised there isn't more discussion on this subject. Before I made my original post, a search came up with nothing...

I believe it was issue 53 and they compared it to a NV5600 and was the deciding factor in my decision to go with the G56 instead of the Aison auto when I ordered my C&C.

 

[BurlesonR]

I believe it was issue 53 and they compared it to a NV5600 and was the deciding factor in my decision to go with the G56 instead of the Aison auto when I ordered my C&C.

Yeah, me too and it's been a good choice.







Thanks JWadford. That was exactly the type of 1st hand info what I was looking for and it makes perfect sense. When shifting a big truck, you can feel how big the gear teeth are compared to that of a light trucks. The light truck will almost "buzz" if you're not in sync. While the big truck will "bump" along till it slips in. Almost like you can feel each tooth until they align. Defiantly not the same with the G56. Also with it being an aluminum case, it sounds awful, like a car transmission when it grinds a gear... . :{



Maybe I'm just not a "driver", but I don't want to tear my stuff up...

Mystery solved for me.

Thanks guys!

 

[mwilson]

You are a *Driver*



A *steerer* would not have asked the questions