Gas and ATF no good for the VE

[bgilbert]

Here are a few shots of my new 91. 5 D250 auto 250k miler, picked it up in Kansas City, Mo last weekend. Got it for a pretty good deal. It has/had a no power/ possible injection pump issue. Had 6 gallons of gas run through it, also prefilled fuel filters with ATF, motor oil and ATF in the fuel tank to cover up the gasoline that was accidently dumped in it. Not sure what caused the problem with the VE. The truck would start, idle and drive but would miss beyond belief with little throttle around 1500rpm or so. The whole engine would shake at that rpm, and blow tons of white smoke. It had no power, would hardly run 30mph and once you got to that speed or 1500rpm it would blow white smoke out the exhaust.



I got there, swapped out injectors, this gained me a few rpms, but the other problems were still there. Trailered it home at that point.



Got the pump off and inside it looks worse that my other two pumps I've had open. All burnt up, unhealthy looking. Two pics of the truck on the trailer, one of the old pump with top removed (brown/ugly inside), the other my 93 spare VE (much cleaner inside). What do you guys think?

 

[Philip]

Thats a clean looking truck Bill.



You going to retire old gray now?

 

[JLEONARD]

Personally, I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would run ATF thru a diesel fuel pump.

ATF has horrible lubricating qualities.

Jay

 

[Greenleaf]

The discolored innards are absolutely normal for an injection pump w/miles on it. Not a problem in itself. Sounds like issues other than discolored aluminum/steel parts.



I could use a pump like that.

 

[bgilbert]

The discolored innards are absolutely normal for an injection pump w/miles on it.

Ok maybe normal for high miles, but the 93 pump I'm putting on is a 320k mile pump one owner that ran #2 only and was religious when it came to fuel filter replacement. I think the VE will last if you take care of it.



For now old gray is gonna be my driver. I plan to make this one a driver. Would be nice to just put it in drive and go to work . The fellow I bought it from thinks I'm gonna build a drag truck out of it . Never know, I may fall in love with it and pull all the hot parts off old gray and put em on this one .



Scott, I plan to keep this one as a core for a big bad Scheid reman if my 14mm pump ever dies. That or I'll teach myself VE. Oh and those POD's are NLA.

 

[MMiller]

Personally, I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would run ATF thru a diesel fuel pump.

Jay

Good I feel better now, at least there is three of us that think that way. I don't really see any reason to put anything but diesel, and a little additive in the tank of my smokers.



Looking pretty good Bill. Now you are even with me. Two smokers, and a gasser you wish was a smoker! :-laf At least my gasser is a big block, and makes good power, for a gasser.



Michael

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I agree... . the use/addition of other 'lubricants' as a fuel additive has always been a curiosity for me...

I guess 'back in the day' the old pro truckers used what they had and since it didn't kill the pump right away, it was assumed that using this as an additive was ok...



I really do support the use of proper fuel additive packages... they are literally designed to do specific things like lubricate without fouling fuel systems/injectors, improve cetane ratings etc... .

I'm not suggesting that alternatives like ATF can't be used in a pinch but not as a regular solution in my opinion. .

I just recently was told that ATF is equiv to roughly 10W viscosity... . just thought I'd through that in... .

Well, that's all the trouble I can get into on this one... .



pb... .

 

[pepecat]

Mysteryman has recommended atf, and uses it himself on a regular basis. "It's like having a Tiger in the tank".

 

[SGibson]

My pump off my 89 (480k) looked the same way, a buddy of mine's truck runs just like you described but two of his pump to timing cover mounts are snapped off and the pump vibrates like a paint shaker. 3 D-cabs huh? one for this, one for that, one for the other thing, I can see the illness has taken root.

 

[bgilbert]

Well since I was in a hurry I didn't check or replace anything on my old/new 93 VE. Got it running, with starter fluid, and it leaks fuel everywhere. Throttle shaft and a couple delivery valve holders. Actually it pours fuel out the DV's. Is there an o-ring that keeps fuel in around the DV's?

 

[Greenleaf]

Bill,



It's them six small copper washers bud. Hey, who taught you how to pull them VE apart? LOL

 

[bgilbert]

Bill,



It's them six small copper washers bud. Hey, who taught you how to pull them VE apart? LOL

Hey now, this 93 pump is supposed to be a 'Greenleaf' pump, good for a million miles :-laf . I think I was wrong. I was preparing to pull the pump again for a good looking over. After I removed the injection lines at the pump, I noticed the small plug in the center of the rotor head was LOOSE. Just about to fall out. No wonder I had diesel fuel all over the floor . I need some better lighting out there in the garage. I could've caught that eariler. I went ahead and made sure all the delivery valve holders were tight. Funny after I tightened this plug the truck started right up, didn't need starter fluid . Now just waiting on some banjo bolts and washers from Geno's to fix that leak at the fuel filter and a lower radiator hose.



BTW why in the heck are these 91. 5-93 radiators so expensive :{ ?? I didn't notice this one leaking on and off the trailer, but it has a big gouge in it from the fan.

 

[Greenleaf]

B,



There is a small copper washer behind that plug very similar to the DV holders. Tugger had me install a pump from an injection shop and that center plug was also loose and dripping fuel... go figure.



The copper washers mentioned for the above item(s) are found in that familiar pump gsk kit.

 

[mysteryman]

I just had my pump off after 240,000 miles . It was as clean as the clean pump pictured above. I also run 5 to 10 gallons of atf per tank of fuel. That is why my pump was so clean. Atf will make you smoke a bit but it does keep the pump clean and makes the truck run like a rocket sled on rails... . I have a friend that has a trans shop that gives me all the used atf I want for free... ... So if nothing else it cuts my fuel costs in half... 240,000 miles and 14 years on my pump is living proof that it does not hurt the pump or the engine... . I have been doing reasearch on the ve pumps as of late. I just about have it all figured out... I see no need in the future to pay anyone to rebuild these pumps... . Anyone that can hold a wrench and a reamer can build them at home.

I will do a write up on all my findings in the future..... I am on the road right now. anyone need anything brought back east. . ??? I am in Mo. right now.

 

[bgilbert]

mysteryman, what would you suggest would cause the pump failure or made it so dirty if the ATF is ok? The gasoline that was run through it?



Michael, I hope to have this truck with POD's and hx35 all ready for IRP. Might run the 1/4. If not, definately a dyno run.

 

[MMiller]

Gasoline in very large quanities is never good for any diesel fuel system. The luberucation of gas is not even close to diesel fuel. I still have reservations of running something like ATF through a pump and injectors.



So, will you be using this 'new' truck to haul up the Silver Bullet? Or the other way around? Oo.



Michael

 

[bgilbert]

So, will you be using this 'new' truck to haul up the Silver Bullet? Or the other way around?

Ain't got no trailer yet. That's the next thing I want or need to find a killer deal on . I plan to let my 16yr old nephew drive the 91. 5 behind me, I drive the 89 since I was planning on taking him, but now he has his license :-laf . Might be the only two 1st gens dynoing beside Partsman with his sissy p-pump .

 

[MMiller]

Ain't got no trailer yet. That's the next thing I want or need to find a killer deal on . I plan to let my 16yr old nephew drive the 91. 5 behind me, I drive the 89 since I was planning on taking him, but now he has his license :-laf . Might be the only two 1st gens dynoing beside Partsman with his sissy p-pump .

Would it make you feel better if I dynoed my 93, just to make sure that your truck is not the lowest numbers?



Michael

 

[bmoeller]

Michael, no hitting below the belt, now. :-laf Then, I'll dyno right after you, to show how it's really done. :-laf :-laf

 

[MMiller]

Michael, no hitting below the belt, now. :-laf Then, I'll dyno right after you, to show how it's really done. :-laf :-laf

So, are you bringing out the 86, to show us up, or what? :-laf :-laf I know what you're going to do, load up your dually on the trailer, and pull it out behind your 86, just to dyno it, and then haul it home, right?



Man, now I'm going to get it... ... .....



Michael