Gas and ATF no good for the VE

[bmoeller]

:-laf :-laf



No, the '86 will stay home. Starter is out of it anyways. :-laf If I put the '86 on the rollers, it would be the low man on the totem pole. It has a 150hp high altitude engine. :{ Smoke-wise, it is all show and a little go. :-laf :-laf



I still haven't decided if I'll be coming out for IRP or to Schieds again, yet. I'd like to catch both. Better make up my mind so I'll get a room.

 

[MMiller]

:-laf :-laf



No, the '86 will stay home. Starter is out of it anyways. :-laf If I put the '86 on the rollers, it would be the low man on the totem pole. It has a 150hp high altitude engine. :{ Smoke-wise, it is all show and a little go. :-laf :-laf



I still haven't decided if I'll be coming out for IRP or to Schieds again, yet. I'd like to catch both. Better make up my mind so I'll get a room.

What do you need a room for, you have one of those new fangled extended cab trucks anyways?



Michael

 

[mysteryman]

ve pump tarnish and failures

Gasoline is the kiss of death to an injection pump. . It will cause it to run hot and or lock up. . The tarnish in your ugly pump pictured could be from several things. Poor quality diesel fuel , Overheating the pump or running the engine at high or excessive temperatures.

One way to overheat the pump is to have a blocked fuel return line. Another is to run gasoline threw the pump. Using incorrect fuel additives or ones that are for use with gasoline. The only real way you can excessively gum up or tarnish the a pump to look like yours is to get the pump hot enough to boil the fuel inside it... Kind of like how bacon fat will tarnish or gum up your frying pan if you forget to turn off the fire before you leave the kitchen...



One last quick note on the VE pump... . I have found that 90% of the ve pump failures are due to pump spring failures. They are located behind the rotary head where the fuel lines connect. What happens is the springs fracture... Then the metal chips and chunks go threw the rest of the pump and chew it apart among other things... . I highly recommend that any of you that have a ve with over 200 K . That you replace the springs right away before they break and ruin the pump... . Bare in mind that many "rebuilders" of these pumps reuse old springs if they check/test ok... . But if they have a lot of miles on them they won't be good for long... . A spring can only be compressed and released so many times in its life span before it breaks...

More on the ve later... . I have to get some rest... .

mysteryman, what would you suggest would cause the pump failure or made it so dirty if the ATF is ok? The gasoline that was run through it?



Michael, I hope to have this truck with POD's and hx35 all ready for IRP. Might run the 1/4. If not, definately a dyno run.

 

[Greenleaf]

Anything is possible however keep in mind that you also mentioned that our trucks will burn up the transmission due to the junk TC's, the doors will become damaged from too thin steel @ the hinge and the rigs will catch fire from an overloaded HL switch. From reading your past exploits it sounds like we should switch brands.

 

[CumminsKid]

mystery man

:--) Not trying to pick but have you ever seen all yhe gunk that is in used ATF. One bad transmission could have millions of small pieces of metal in it. Not too great for the pump or cylinder walls. What is wrong with diesel fuel and Howes Lube or Power Service? It costs a little but is a lot cheaper that being sranded on the road.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

BTW why in the heck are these 91. 5-93 radiators so expensive :{ ?? QUOTE]











http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=8061045747&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT



Will this one work ? Best price I have found yet for a radiator.

 

[bgilbert]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=8061045747&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT



Will this one work ? Best price I have found yet for a radiator.

Wow thats cheap, about half the price for a NAPA unit. Only thing that scares me is UPS ground shipping , they can break anything.

 

[Greenleaf]

I ran ATF for some time in one of the farm tractors. It was fresh stuff from the bottle. I can honestly say it still ain't right. I have to pull the injectors to have 'em cleaned and calibrated @ the pump shop. Then had to clean 'em again. The engine still smokes like a Shay locomotive pulling Bald Knob. "Seems" to run ok now though... ... ... ...



I have seen a lot of pumps that are discolored inside so everyone must be abusing the engine. I have a very discolored pump w/310K on her. I'll have to tell Phil he was abusing the engine to discolor the pump like that.



I do know that Cummins says somewhere that it be swell to run some used engine oil in the fuel. I just cannot recall where I read that. Operator manual I think. I'll look. I know the guys talk about that on a forum soemwhere @ this site. That may be an option as the ULSD is "supposed" to cut particulate emissions even on the older non DPF equipped units.



I'm particular of particulates.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Wow thats cheap, about half the price for a NAPA unit. Only thing that scares me is UPS ground shipping , they can break anything.

You have to make sure it is the right one for your truck. Not all the radiators were the same in our trucks. My friends 90 has the kind that is bolted in. Check them out, and for the price, you might be able to add insurance on it. I didn't check into it that far. Here is another link to some others.



Heed caution for some of the items shipping cost with those links. Some are ok, others are outrageous.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-9...cmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33602QQitemZ8058060861

 

[bmoeller]

What do you need a room for, you have one of those new fangled extended cab trucks anyways?



Michael

:-laf



True, but I do it in the KW enough as it, with a day cab. Being 6' 6", it isn't that great.

 

[bmoeller]

Bill, my local NAPA located one for my '97. It wasn't one that they listed in their normal books, or on NAPA's site. Was cheaper than their gasser radiator for the 360 equipped trucks. Cools great, too.

 

[DieselBuzz]

Maybe it's the charm?

bglibert,

Do you have one of those "Y" sticks they use for dousing for water? Or, do you sit straight up at night with a vision? Is your sense of smell better than your friends?

How do you find all these deals?

I least I want to know.

 

[bgilbert]

bglibert,

Do you have one of those "Y" sticks they use for dousing for water? Or, do you sit straight up at night with a vision? Is your sense of smell better than your friends?

How do you find all these deals?

I least I want to know.

Spend lots of time online on diesel truck websites like a vulture does fresh prey :-laf . I circle around Dodge Cummins trucks and their owners all the time. I give out business cards to local Dodge truck owners, gas and diesel, tell them if when your truck breaks down or want to sell it, don't call the scrap or junkyard, CALL ME!!! Right now I have my eye on a 89 D150 rust free SILVER gasser running around town that has a very nice body. Now if that 318 would just take a dump :-laf , I'd have a new truck with all those good body parts.

 

[mysteryman]

ve pumps / fuel contaminants

Yes I am quite aware of what is in used atf. Metal settles to the bottom of the barrel . Clutch plate particles do the same for the most part. Of that that does not the filters will get it... Are you aware of how much ash and grunge is in diesel fuel ??? Just stick a stick to the bottom of a heating fuel tank and see what you come up with. . Diesel fuel is nasty dirty stuff... All your big trucks have 2 filters . A pre and a post. . In the old days they were not spin ons. You had to put a cartridge in a filter can. I have changed my share of them and recall all the sludge that came out... Next time you change you filter on your truck. Cut it open and see what's inside... You might not feel so bad about using used atf after seeing what's inside. I am also certain that your wallet won't mind at all either... .



I have NEVER had a 6B Cummins truck leave me on the side of the road yet. I did come close during my dog tour. But the truck did make it home. It turns out that one of the main pump springs broke into 3 pieces... The rest of the pump looked like new inside after 248K of used trans fluid running threw it... Even the main drive shaft bushings were still in perfect condition... .

Theories remain theories until tested and proven... After that they are facts. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that the used atf and what ever is found in it does not hurt VE pumps used in our trucks...

My 14 year test results speak for themselves... .



One last thing I would like to mention on the subject is that there is a filter/strainer of sorts in the tanks of our trucks... The trucks are getting old enough now to have quite some build up of ash and sludge in the tanks...

It will stop or restrict fuel flow if enough of it builds up. A good plan would be to drop the tank or lift off the bed and clean the crap out of the tank then clean or replace the filter/strainer... It is much easier to do at home rather than on the side of the road... Another thing that will stop the show is algae...

That green stuff you see in the bottom of a fish tank or stream. . And yes it does form in diesel tanks under the right conditions... . It will stop up the filter/strainer in very short order... Most diesel fuel conditioners will prevent this if used regularly...



Happy motoring...

:--) Not trying to pick but have you ever seen all yhe gunk that is in used ATF. One bad transmission could have millions of small pieces of metal in it. Not too great for the pump or cylinder walls. What is wrong with diesel fuel and Howes Lube or Power Service? It costs a little but is a lot cheaper that being sranded on the road.

 

[mysteryman]

Hi Bill, bank on the trans dropping first . Then the EFI computer... The 318 is tough to kill... . LOL A good place to drop off your cards is at trans shops... They give out estimates and get stuck with the trucks when the owners refuse to dump the money to fix them. I get a lot of trucks that way... .

Spend lots of time online on diesel truck websites like a vulture does fresh prey :-laf . I circle around Dodge Cummins trucks and their owners all the time. I give out business cards to local Dodge truck owners, gas and diesel, tell them if when your truck breaks down or want to sell it, don't call the scrap or junkyard, CALL ME!!! Right now I have my eye on a 89 D150 rust free SILVER gasser running around town that has a very nice body. Now if that 318 would just take a dump :-laf , I'd have a new truck with all those good body parts.

 

[mysteryman]

ATF 10W viscosity VE pump

Bob is correct ..... If you live up north in the winter useing too much atf can get real exciting ! And yes you could crack the pump housing if the pressure goes too high ! I mix it 50 50 with diesel in the summer months. Less in the winter... I normally go south in Dec. I just don't do winter anymore. . When it drops below 40 I leave town. So fuel gelling is not much of an issue with me...

Just thought I should mention this for the northern guys...

I agree... . the use/addition of other 'lubricants' as a fuel additive has always been a curiosity for me...

I guess 'back in the day' the old pro truckers used what they had and since it didn't kill the pump right away, it was assumed that using this as an additive was ok...



I really do support the use of proper fuel additive packages... they are literally designed to do specific things like lubricate without fouling fuel systems/injectors, improve cetane ratings etc... .

I'm not suggesting that alternatives like ATF can't be used in a pinch but not as a regular solution in my opinion. .

I just recently was told that ATF is equiv to roughly 10W viscosity... . just thought I'd through that in... .

Well, that's all the trouble I can get into on this one... .



pb... .

 

[THeske]

THIS POST IS REFERRING TO ONLY NEW ATF NOT USED ATF, how ever if the used ATF was pre filtered I don't see a problem with it, What do you think your buying when you buy some brands of motor oil, RECYCLED OIL, I was told by a experienced V. W mechanic that they would disconnect the fuel lines from the tank and run a quart of straight ATF through the engine at an idle with the odd shot of rapid throttle, too clean out the VE pump & injectors & fuel injection lines as a regular tune up procedure the quart of ATF would be good for close to half an hour of idle/wot conditions both suction & return fuel line were put in the quart container, ATF is a high detergent fluid and does have great lubricating properties, Try running anything else through your automatic transmission, for that matter why are the big 3 manufactures recommending ATF in some of their manual transmissions/transfer cases anything else would void your warranty,

HUM lets see ATF without lubricating properties in a manual gear case, I don't think those recommendations would be there because they like doing warranty work,

However I'm not saying ATF is better than a designed deisel additive, But I personally think it's not the demon everyone thinks it is, I Have two V. W jetta's with VE pumps yes they basically are the same as the Cummins VE pumps, My 1986 Jetta has 1,260,000 KM on it running the same NON re-built VE pump, The motor was rebuilt for the first time at 750,000 km, My 1990 has 325,000 km on it VE pump equipped, You guessed it regular ATF treatments on both, So maybe just maybe Mysteryman is onto something, whatcha all thinkin now?