Gcwr ?

[hdrk60]

New to TDR. Manual shows 15000 GCWR. Truck wt. 7200 lbs. ( Weighed truck at scales). I want to be sure I understand definition of GCWR correctly. I thought it meant 7200 lbs truck wt + gross trailer wt = 15000 lbs. This would only have 7800 lb max trailer + cargo.

Would this be the same for both tag and 5th wheel trailers ? I've been to 3 Dodge dealers and have recieved conflicting answers.

1998. 5 Ram 3500, DRW, Quad cab, 4WD 154. 7 long bed, 24 valve 5. 9L, 5 spd NAV4500 HD, Dana M60/248MM front axle, Dana M80 rear axle, 3. 55 ratio, Shift-on-the-fly 241HD Transfer Case, Heavy Duty service group, Trailer Tow group, Pwr brakes drum rear and disk frt. , Heavy Duty Engine cooling, LT215/85R16E tires. Recieved these specs from the VIN through Dodge dealer.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Thomas]

The 1999, 2000, and 2001 advertising "slick" brochures for Rams with the same specifications as yours all show 20,000 lbs GCWR. I'd be surprised if your 1998 ISB Ram was different.

Gross Combined Weight Rating is like it says - Combined.

 

[CUMMINZ]

Gcvr

Gross combined is a DC recommendation and maximum weight for your total rig. These are my numbers for example...



If GCVR is 20,000... .



Your 5er lets say has GVW of 12,000#

Your truck GVW is 12,000#



Total rig GVW is 24,000#s.



DC (GCVR or W) is 20,000#



Your whole rig should not exceed this recommendation.



Get weight of your truck.



Load 5er on hitch and weigh again. Truck numbers will increase. That gives you th 5er weight.



Can you do the math from here?

 

[GAmes]

My 97 has a GCWR of 20,000 and the 97 4X4s have a 16,000 GCWR. I think you need to look at it again. For what it's worth, the GCWR is a warranty thing (IMO) and has no legal standing. After you exceed it you WILL see decreased component life... ... ..... note I am on my 6th transmission, but everything else in the drivetrain is original.

 

[BHaden]

Check the door tag. It has various weights limits listed.

 

[jelag]

I can share with you that our 04 3500 dually has exceeded those numbers and done well... it now has 230K miles or so... . we've had 1 clutch and 1 transmission failure... that truck pulls a trailer that weighs close to 22K lbs. the truck has pulled this trailer so much we've never ran a full tank of fuel in the truck with no load... .



The trailer does have hyd disc brakes... . I'm suggesting that you do this unless you understand the risks... we've done it for 4 or 5 years first with an 01 and now the 04... with increasing loads we've moved to a straight truck thats gvw is 56,000 and it carries more payload than the load and trailer weight before..... the truck always pulled this load fine... slow on the hills but with the exhaust brake we did fine. . what worried us... was the open space in front in a panic stop... . we just couldn't keep the jerks out of the safety margin we had..... and as time passed I got more worried that our time would come to have a problem... so the 04 is going to get a flat bed and be our in town truck... .



Hope this helps... .

 

[TJJEEPER]

Gross Combined Weight can be legally enforced if the officer who pulled you over wants to enforce it.

 

[RustyJC]

Manufacturer's GCWR is what determines what class of non-CDL driver's license is required here in Texas if one is towing a trailer.



Rusty

 

[GAmes]

Gross Combined Weight can be legally enforced if the officer who pulled you over wants to enforce it.

Please tell me how. The biggest question would be 'where would the officer obtain the GCWR of the vehicle he/she pulls over?'. i. e. The GCWR of my pick-up is 20,000 lbs, and that info is buried in the small print of the owners manual. The same 97, 2WD, 5 spd, 3. 54 gears sold in CA is 16,000-also buried deep in the owners manual.



The second question is 'exactly what law is being broken?'.

 

[klenger]

My owner's manual makes no reference to GCWR. The only reference to it that I have found is in Dodge publications and website info that is no longer online.

 

[J&LRam]

the GCWR tag on our trucks is a recommendation only from Dodge. Its a performance issue and is nothing legal. Law enforcement isn't interested in GCWR tag as just a gear change from 3. 54 to 4. 10 can change that number. Our trucks are registered in each state by GVWR and each state have uprate GVWR tags/stickers/title/etc that are available. In OK my 2500 truck has a uprate 15000 GVWR [non commercial] registration. Also frt/rear GAWR tag on the door is enforced also.

JIM

 

[jtisdale]

The bigger concern the DOT has here in WI is the rating on the tires. If you axle out over what your tires are rated for, its good night Irene. Not to mention what your registered for. They are really starting to push this more and more - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration When I had my safety audit (for my US DOT numbers) the (WI) inspector told me fines for a violation start at $2000 and go up. It was strongly suggested I take this seriously. However, seems to vary by state as to whether a state enforces the law(s), but, it still is Federal, and if they choose to they can enforce it.



OR... If you happen to be in an accident whether its your fault or not and your over your GVWR or GCVWR, your insurance company may refuse a claim siting you were "beyond the mechanical limits of your vehicle"... seen that one happen, and then the other guy sued and his lawyer made the case surrounding just that fact.

I have exceeded my GVWR and GCVWR (sometimes at the same time) and I am sure I will again. A lot of people do. Just be aware of the possible consequences if you choose to do it.

 

[RustyJC]

From the Texas Transportation Code:

§ 522. 003. DEFINITIONS.



In this chapter:



(17) "Gross combination weight rating" means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination or articulated vehicle or, if the manufacturer has not specified a value, the sum of the gross vehicle weight rating of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit or units and any load on a towed unit.

Why is this important?

SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES



§ 521. 081. CLASS A LICENSE.



A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:



(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or



(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Perhaps your state is different, but as the above illustrates, Texas law uses manufacturer's GCWR.



Rusty

 

[GAmes]

Rusty, you just posted the requirements to get a CDL which are pretty much the same across the U. S. I'm talking about the legality of exceeding the manufacturers GCWR. None of our pickups have a GCWR of 26,000 or above and since it is not posted on the data plate they go by the second part of the reg anyway. My truck has a GVWR of 10,500. I can hook up to a trailer with a GVWR of 15,500, load them both to those limits and cross any scale in the U. S without a CDL legally. I have exceeded the manufacturers rating by 6000pounds, but that is not an enforceable limit.

 

[RustyJC]

Rusty, you just posted the requirements to get a CDL which are pretty much the same across the U. S.

No, I didn't. § 521. 081 covers a non-CDL Class A driver's license in Texas. And Dodge has provided a GCWR - it's right in my owner's manual, and I can show it to any enforcement officer whenever required.



The question at hand, however, was the use of manufacturer's GCWR ratings by the states. I've merely shown that Texas does use them.



Rusty

 

[GAmes]

OK, it is a coincidence that the requirements are the same as a class A CDL. Very few states have non-commercial Class As. We are still talking about two different subjects.



My owners manual also lists GCWR, but it shows two for a 2WD, 5spd duelly. How would a law enforcement official know; a. that the numbers are in the manual and b. where my truck was originally sold. Where would he get that info if I didn't have an owners manual. For that matter, where would DMV get that info in order to require you getting a Class A, if in fact the manual showed a GCWR over 26,000 pounds since GCWR is not posted on the data plate?

 

[RustyJC]

It's not worth debating. The only point I'm making is:



1. Texas bases its driver license classifications on GCWR for towing applications.



2. Texas first uses manufacturer's GCWR in this determination.



3. Dodge rates its trucks with a GCWR rating.



4. I can provide the DPS Trooper with this GCWR rating if the question of my license classification arises.



Since my truck's GCWR is <26,001 lbs, I don't need a non-CDL Class A license. As an aside, this is the very reason that Ford's F-350 TowBoss (which is purchased for a lot of RV towing applications) has a GCWR of 26,000 lbs.



Rusty

 

[GAmes]

Rusty, this can't be a debate because we are talking two different sujects. You are talking about drivers license requirements and I'm talking about the legality of exceeding the manufacturer's GCWR of a pickup that is no where close to 26,000 pounds.

 

[RustyJC]

Yep, I guess we are. I'm addressing the following from earlier in the thread that carries on the myth that GCWR has no legal standing.

the GCWR tag on our trucks is a recommendation only from Dodge. Its a performance issue and is nothing legal. Law enforcement isn't interested in GCWR tag as just a gear change from 3. 54 to 4. 10 can change that number.

Rusty

 

[WVanHemert]

It may be where you are that GCWR is not a legal binding, but in all of CANADA, you cannot operate a vehicle no matter what license you have in an overweight situation.

The GCWR is a LEGAL basis used to determine the LEGAL load capacity of your vehicle. It is not a manufacturer recommendation is is the LEGAL limit. You can in certain provinces however license your vehicle for less to reduce your costs.

Walter