Generator transfer switch help in Houston

[JRS]

Survived the hurricane with minor damage. Have been running house on Onan portable generator set since last Saturday. Estimate from the power company is 4 more days of outage. (these guys are working as fast as they can) Since the generator is normally used for my race car trailer, I have extension cords snaked throughout the house. However, I would like to do it right and purchase a manual outdoor transfer switch. Where is the best place to purchase one at? I was going to head to the local electrical supply house, which is a City Electric. I'm sure these are in short supply in and around Houston but would like to research/install one before the next storm.



fyi- I forgot about the quality of gas that is availble after storms. My hurricane survival kit will now contain a couple of bottles of BG 44K fuel cleaner and a can of carb cleaner.

 

[MChildress]

I was in City Electric in Katy a couple weeks ago,good people. If they dont have them Nothern Tool carries them. Hope that helps. My dad just locked up his 25 kw last night. Been running it 24 hrs all week and let the oil get low,luckly he still had a 10kw stand by.

 

[DonTX]

The old fashioned way I usually get by with is simple. Make yourself a cord with a plug on both ends, plug one end to the genset, the other to an outlet in the house AFTER TURNING OFF THE MAIN BREAKER!! This will only get you juice on one side of the power grid, but generally all the outlets are on the same side circuit anyway. If you have 240 on your genset, you can make a plug to fit a 240 outlet and have full house power.

I was in City Electric in Katy a couple weeks ago,good people. If they dont have them Nothern Tool carries them. Hope that helps. My dad just locked up his 25 kw last night. Been running it 24 hrs all week and let the oil get low,luckly he still had a 10kw stand by.

 

[jelag]

Geez, you'd think there would be a low oil switch on his 25kw unit... . my little Honda 5kw has one.....

In the part of WA we are in, we don't much of an issue... . for us its more simple...

We have a nice 8 gauge cord made up to plug into a 50 amp circuit in the garage... we flip the main off, plug in the gen set and the 50 amp circuit supplies the house... . we have to just be careful what we turn on... . but the normal appliances work fine with this... .

 

[kenny61]

You can back feed thru an unused double pole breaker that is the same rating as the generator. make sure you turn the main off while doing this and turn the back fed breaker off before turning the main back on. Home Depot carries the Square D brand of transfer switches

 

[kenny61]

Actually it is a Connecticut Electric model that is "A quality product of China"

 

[fox]

The electric company would prefer to see the meter pulled.

you will scare them if it isn't pulled when they see the generator running!!

 

[JRS]

Another question about generators. I'm powering my home off an Onan PRO 6000E. It's been working flawlesslly for a week. Well tonight it started surging. Not bad, not noticed by my wife, but noticed by me. I cleaned the carb with some spray carb cleaner and all was good. Then about two hours later, it started surging again. I cleaned the carb again, which didn't work nearly so well this time. I got tired of watching the governor arm hunt, so I just slowly closed the choke until it stopped. with the choke about 40% closed the governor arm is rock solid, just like when I started a week ago. I think this is telling me that I need to check the fuel filter? (air filter is clean)

 

[JRS]

One other question, it appears that the fuel filter would be in the 90 degree elbow coming off the bottom of the fuel tank? again, this is a portable Onan PRO 6000E.

 

[Skydiver]

If it is surging then the gen is starving for fuel. Filter or jet clogged.

I back feed my house through a 220 breaker at times. Make 100% sure your main breaker is off. I have seen homes that did not have a main breaker and backfeeding will not work. The first time I had to back feed I made a #10 wire with a 220 gen plug on one side and fed it into the dryer rect. using a spare dryer plug.

With a 6000 watt I would not try to start the central air. Make sure it is off. Once you are up with power, plug any inductive loads in one at a time. Inductive loads are motors. Refrig, freezer, window a/c units. Inductive loads require a lot of power to get them turning.

When the power is back on make sure you disconnect the gen before you flip the main breaker or things will get expensive.

 

[Bob Cochran]

Caution!!!!

1) you need to islolate your generator to the power grid. Reason is if you back feed you 240 or 120 volt will be stepped up via the same transformers that initially step down the voltage and kill or innjure an electrical worker trying to restore your power back. Your back feed can be stepped up to 7200 or 12,470 volts. Now the should check and install shorts and grounds to prevent this for safety. They are in a rush and tired and sometimes safety is compromised in the rush. If you don't have a disconnect before connect transfer switch pull the meter or open the main breaker.

2) If by chance you have your generator connected and not isolated from the utility grid and they restore power. Your generator more than likely will be out of phase with the utility it can destroy your generator perhaps catching fire.

So be careful and isolate your house from the utility when operating your generator. I speak from experience having worked for an Electric Utility for over 30 years.

 

[JRS]

The reason I didn't back feed was because of what I found on the Onan Indiana web site (see below)



Can I open my main disconnect breakers and connect my generator to a receptacle?



No. In concept this may seem like a good idea, but is not advisable for the following reasons:



The national electric code and most city, state, and county ordinances require approved means of isolating generator power from utility power. These requirements are designed to protect the lives of both you and the utility workers and to protect your equipment.

The main disconnect breakers are not designed to isolate power from two sources. Typically these breakers are rated for 240 volts. If the generator and utility are out of phase the voltage differences between these sources can reach 480 volts.

The main disconnect breakers can fail without visible indication. The breaker may feel like it is open but may be electrically connected internally due to a spring or other failure. This can go unnoticed until utility power returns.

When both sources of power are available it is possible to connect both sources together. Accidentally operating the wrong breaker can have severe consequences. Approved means of isolation usually require 3 position switches or breakers that prevent connecting both sources of power.



We've got over 7,000 extra utility workers in town trying to get Houston back up and running. If I have to spend $400 for a transfer switch to keep some one alive and able to go back home to their family, I don't mind.



Thanks for the heads up on the surging. I'll start with the fuel filter cleaning tomorrow.

 

[JRS]

Besides that, it was my fault for not getting off my rear and installing it when we had good weather!

 

[icman95]

You're right, I would highly recommend a transfer switch for safety issues. I got mine at Home Depot about 8 years ago. At the time it was $300 for a 10 circuit version. Don't know what it costs now. It came with a video showing exactly how to hook it up and it was pretty easy. I put an outdoor box on the side of my house and ran a wire from it to the transfer switch. I just plug the generator into the outdoor box and I'm good to go. This keeps the power on to my house and the utility workers safe when working on the lines.



The last time I had to use it a tree fell on my line. When the guys came to repair it, the generator was running and the guys had no problem fixing the line after I told them that it was on a transfer switch. If it wasn't, they either wouldn't have fixed it or would have died trying.

 

[DonTX]

Always the die hard maverick, I must point out that the logic used is because the main breaker "might malfunction". I can assure you that the transfer switch may malfunction as well! I would NEVER work on restoring power to a home with the generator running, transfer switch or not, and would consider someone who did committing an unsafe act. .

What I actually do is REMOVE the main breaker, no malfunction is then possible, no way for the grid and you to get connected, quite impossible. The transfer switch has to be considered more of a convenience than a necessity, and it certainly is convenient. I put one on every RV I buy for instance, nice to just start the genset when the campground power goes out at5 3AM, and you don't want to go out in the thunderstorm and play with receptacles. Although I never had a main malfunction, I have had two transfer switches malfunction.

I am not advocating against transfer switches, just understand what you are actually dping.

You're right, I would highly recommend a transfer switch for safety issues. I got mine at Home Depot about 8 years ago. At the time it was $300 for a 10 circuit version. Don't know what it costs now. It came with a video showing exactly how to hook it up and it was pretty easy. I put an outdoor box on the side of my house and ran a wire from it to the transfer switch. I just plug the generator into the outdoor box and I'm good to go. This keeps the power on to my house and the utility workers safe when working on the lines.



The last time I had to use it a tree fell on my line. When the guys came to repair it, the generator was running and the guys had no problem fixing the line after I told them that it was on a transfer switch. If it wasn't, they either wouldn't have fixed it or would have died trying.

 

[JRS]

Fixed surging problem, fuel filter (ie, screen) had come off and was floating around in tank. Also, there was trash in the fuel shut off valve (from lack of filter) and rust in the carb fuel bowl. All clean/re-installed and running like new. thanks for the help.

 

[C. Harlan]

Make Sure!!!!!

To be safe, cut the seal on the meter can, and remove your meter, that way you know for sure that no power is backfeeding to the transformer, causing it to invert the 120/240 volts to a lethal primary voltage which someone like myself may be working on, trying to restore power and get hit and killed with. just let your power company know you cut the meter seal and pulled the meter to make sure you were not backfeeding electricity back into the Transformer. . hope this makes sense, and if you need any help feel free to PM me.



-Chris-

 

[jakprince]

isnt there a hefty fine for tampering with an electric meter?

 

[C. Harlan]

yes and no... in this case, it would be legitimate, and the company could look up the customers record, and see that there was no previous reports of a tampered meter... Also, being at this time, with all the power restoration happening out there, our power company included, I am sure that they would understand. I would rather have someone pull the meter and save lives than backfeed a transformer and kill someone who was too lazy to follow safety procedures, both on the customers side putting disconnects to prevent backfeed, and on the power company's side for not putting grounds on the electrical equipment. .



IF IT'S NOT GROUNDED, ITS NOT DEAD!



-Chris-

 

[Bob Cochran]

I do not know of any utility under this circumstance who would have a problem with pulling the meter. In actuality and this is not about being an emergency, the socket is a customer responsibility for maintenance. If you was to properly inspect said meter socket you would have to remove the meter!!!! Long as you notify utility prior to meter removal no problem they may even do it for you. Most customers don't know this and there are very few meter socket problems so seldom is maintenance of meter socket necessary.

A properly installed standby generator and transfer switch has also visibly labeled manual disconnect switch that the utility can lock open with one of their locks before working on the line. If this is done in a non-emergency situation the utility inspects the installation to approve of the disconnect switch and manual lockable switch. It is also noted on their maps so the Line Person knows the generation is there to go and lock open the switch. Of course you are talking of and emergency here and this may have not been properly done and basically certified by the utility.

Wither this is done properly or not by you as the customer it does not relief the Line Person from properly installing shorts and grounds. You are talking about people working long hard hours to restore power. You doing your part will help. I unfortunately have seen the effects of electrical contacts at these voltages and what a person goes through in the recovery process in burn units. I will do everything possible on my side as customer to help prevent this from happening. If it means I have to go without power I would, if it means putting in $300 to $500 to automatically do it for me I will gladly spend it. If in this case the equipment is not available or time is limited pull the meter and call the utility that you did.